Hill walking stupidity

Forgive me, but you're slightly ambiguous:
was his jaunt not part of the organised event, or simply not covered by the organiser's insurance, and therefore undertaken at own risk?
I believe it was at his own risk. However I think he is competent enough to be safe. As he does offer guided runs I think he would not be averse to insurance.
 

Sarastro

LE
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Yes, even people who do a lot of walking and who you thought knew better, don't consider possibilities of a sudden change in temperature or heavy rain. They will moan about the cold but will seldom do anything about it and don't know how to improvise. Better to freeze or suffer than look a twat or carry a few ounces extra. When it comes to staying alive, nobody cares what you look like as long as you are not another statistic. Wickable base layers are great but failing that it makes sense to carry a light weight base layer or top to change in to. It may get a few glances, given that there is rarely any shelter atop a mountain for example, but certainly makes a difference. In any case, all it takes is a sprained ankle or having to linger for a while in an exposed location to lose heat very fast through damp clothing and wind chill.
This is fair - one of the unique UK elements of "weather changing" that I'd compare favourably (i.e. is actually dangerous) to other parts of the world is that special combination of wind, cold and wet that you get in many places can more quickly induce hypothermia than many places that are colder, but drier and more predictable.

That said, the logic here is again pretty simple. The main thing that keeps you warm is activity. If you aren't having to plan on days or weeks long extraction in the shit, therefore the main solution to being cold is: just keep moving. Keep moving in the direction: down, and along the path you came (unless anywhere closer is obvious). Your energy reserves will take care of the rest. It may not be pleasant, but you can do that on your own with a sprained ankle or even a broken leg, you can even do it dragging yourself along the ground.

Again, I think part of the reason people don't do that is that they are taught they always have a safety blanket: if you get in trouble, stay where you are and call for help! This is classically bad advice and should only be done after you have exhausted all possible means of self help. That's fine if you have a broken bone on the side of a technical face and you know moving is more dangerous than calling the emergency rope team. It doesn't mean - and I think this is too often the UK translation - that if you get an owie in freezing sheet rain on the path halfway up a mild Scottish incline 5 miles away from the pub, you should just sit down and cry until someone comes to help you.

There is a certain level of survival decision making that is required in order for people to, you know, survive. Part of that is the idiot factor, which is hard to aim off for. But another part of it is that people need a degree of self-reliance. Like so much else in the UK, I think the accepted approach tends to over-dramatise the dangers, inculcate the inexperienced to think they are in a much worse situation than they are, and teach them that they need professional help to get out of it when they don't. As a result they make poor decisions and behave as if they are stranded in the middle of Alaska, when the best option would be to griz it out and recover themselves.

Here's a comparison: you rarely hear the "and they were only half a mile away from a house" story in mountaineering incidents in the Alps - another area where buildings are never far away on the hills. Part of that is presumably due to the higher occurrence of fog in the UK. But another is that, despite very efficient mountain rescue teams, most Italian / French / Swiss people are embarrassed to call them.
 
This is fair - one of the unique UK elements of "weather changing" that I'd
Good post. I think another factor that's not been mentioned is......knowing when to call it a day and turn around! The mountains have been there for a while, and they'll be there for another wee while yet, so if you don't make it to the top that day, there's always another day.
Pushing on through horrendous weather is oft times a bit daft and that's when your reserves give out and you go down. Was doing the Lharig Ghru one day, when that lovely sideways Scottish rain came in....you know the stuff that soaks you from the underneath? Tried to push through but eventually said to my oppo that's plenty and turned around.
The simple act of turning around and going back downhill gives you a little bit more energy to get cracking.
 
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Wyomingites.
Think about it, we settled a huge chunk of land against determined opposition and horrible conditions and brought Civilization to an area that is bigger than the UK. If bring enough jerky, Copenhagen, and bourbon I will win the locals over with my Spam charm.
Determined Opposition? In wyoming? Even the Native Americans didnt care a fuck for most of the land. Would this be the determined opposition the US government kept agreeing treaties with and then when the white settlers basically ignored the rules would go and send the army out to kill the non treaty breakerss (the natives).

Yeah you brought civilization to an area and people who were quite happy to lead their own lives, by murdering them and various other and civilized conduct. But give your self a pat on the back you have guns ffs.

I doubt you will win many natives over with that attidute
 
Good post. I think another factor that's not been mentioned is......knowing when to call it a day and turn around! The mountains have been there for a while, and they'll be there for another wee while yet, so if you don't make it to the top that day, there's always another day.
Pushing on through horrendous weather is oft times a bit daft and that's when your reserves give out and you go down. Was doing the Lharig Ghru one day, when that lovely sideways Scottish rain came in....you know the stuff that soaks you from the underneath? Tried to push through but eventually said to my oppo and said that's plenty and turned around.
The simple act of turning around and going back downhill gives you a little bit more energy to get cracking.
I turned round and walked back down the hill on my last trip to the Cairngorms - I got to the top of the Devil's Point, planning on going to go up to Cairn Toul, which is farther up the ridge, and saw that the fog was way too severe and there was sod all visibility. Younger me would have carried on trucking, older me thought better.
I had the pleasure of telling folks who were on the way up that their plans on going to Cairn Toul and Braeriach were out of the window. Including some who had come all the way up from England to do it. Still, better they are disappointed at the wasted day than dead.
 
But they do, they don't understand the local cuisine so they eat what they know. Been watching them for the last two weeks in Cologne.......I'm off having schnitzel, Gyros and hand made be real italians pizzas and when I wander past Mickeys, BK, the Hut and the Colonels chicken shack there are queues of Americans out of the doors.

One thing I have not seen in Cologne is a BBQ shed, or an authentic simple burger shack..........might be worth a thought.

edit to add: Not even seen a fish and chippery either.
Wait you are having a go at Americans eating American food in Koln but saying you are so cultured you are eating pizzas in Germany (but they are made by real italians ffs). mm Schnitzel and Gyros so very very german!

Get a fucking grip
 
Determined Opposition? In wyoming? Even the Native Americans didnt care a **** for most of the land. Would this be the determined opposition the US government kept agreeing treaties with and then when the white settlers basically ignored the rules would go and send the army out to kill the non treaty breakerss (the natives).

Yeah you brought civilization to an area and people who were quite happy to lead their own lives, by murdering them and various other and civilized conduct. But give your self a pat on the back you have guns ffs.

I doubt you will win many natives over with that attidute

For the historically impaired....

This square state was home to many battles, which did not always go in favor of us White eyes.

Wyoming Indian War Battles, Skirmishes & Massacres – Legends of America


You seem to be confused by the nomadic lifestyle concept.


6 Sacred Sites In Wyoming That Everyone Should Visit At Least Once


I should charge you for these free history lessons.
 
For the historically impaired....

This square state was home to many battles, which did not always go in favor of us White eyes.

Wyoming Indian War Battles, Skirmishes & Massacres – Legends of America


You seem to be confused by the nomadic lifestyle concept.


6 Sacred Sites In Wyoming That Everyone Should Visit At Least Once


I should charge you for these free history lessons.
Or should we charge you for pointing out the government didnt not keep to their end of the bargain and did not stop whites doing what they wanted. They chose not to support the treaties keeping whites out of Indian lands, but actively broke them.

Im the least apologist of what happened in the past, shit happened get over it. However, i dont believe in lying and creating some false frame work where whites brought civilisation. Hey we were the bigest and meanest fuckers for the last few hundred years and we did and took what we wanted.

Go us, but why lie about what we got upto sometimes?
 
Or should we charge you for pointing out the government didnt not keep to their end of the bargain and did not stop whites doing what they wanted. They chose not to support the treaties keeping whites out of Indian lands, but actively broke them.

Im the least apologist of what happened in the past, shit happened get over it. However, i dont believe in lying and creating some false frame work where whites brought civilisation. Hey we were the bigest and meanest ******* for the last few hundred years and we did and took what we wanted.

Go us, but why lie about what we got upto sometimes?

Here we go again....The US Government tried their best to honor the treaties. However they also were not going to try to stop the flood of setttlers heading West. Manifest Destiny and such.

At which point the US Army was committed to a rather long insurgency. Which you seem to know Jack shit about. The Indian wars were long and complicated. When two civilizations compete for the same space it will get “messy”. The UK is a great example of this. You were colonized by the Celts, Romans, Angles and Saxon’s, Vikings, and Norman’s......etc
 
Here we go again....The US Government tried their best to honor the treaties. However they also were not going to try to stop the flood of setttlers heading West. Manifest Destiny and such.

At which point the US Army was committed to a rather long insurgency. Which you seem to know Jack shit about. The Indian wars were long and complicated. When two civilizations compete for the same space it will get “messy”. The UK is a great example of this. You were colonized by the Celts, Romans, Angles and Saxon’s, Vikings, and Norman’s......etc

Get with the message, they were peace loving engineers and scientists who added cultural diversity which we were crying out for at the time.
 
0:58 that guy has just rolled his sleeves up and is jogging up the mountain in his normal work gear, trousers and shirts and shoes!.
My favourite is Jock Petrie, who must be in the running for the prize for most unfit looking hill runner ever.
 
Wait you are having a go at Americans eating American food in Koln but saying you are so cultured you are eating pizzas in Germany (but they are made by real italians ffs). mm Schnitzel and Gyros so very very german!

Get a ******* grip
Wooooosh.

My point being that I don't go to furrin countries to eat what I can get at home. Whilst the Wiener schnitzel may have arrived from Austria the jaeger schnitzel and zigeuner schnitzel are considered einheimische kuche across the German speaking countries. Further, Gyro's and doner* are now both a staple of boxhead fast food, italian, well, in this case it was proper italian pizza made with dough from semolina flour and it tasted yummy.......and the bloke spoke German with an authentic Italian accent.

I also had a currywurst, mit pommes und mayonaise, if that is any good.:)

Note: * Gyro's is the Greek version whilst Doner is the Turkish version.
 
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Is this the thread where all ARRSErs can pretend to be a cross between Mallory and Chris Bonington because they once walked up Hellvellyn on some AT with the Army, and therefore are now Mountain Leader SMEs?
 

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