High Speed 2 to start in the North

Discussion in 'Travel' started by Kromeriz, Nov 6, 2011.

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  1. HS2 rail link should start in north of England say MPs - Telegraph

    What are your views on the High Speed Line. Should we start in the north and to allow capacity for London Birmingham should the Chilterns route be electrified and equipped to allow full rakes, with reduced signalling headways, and longer platforms.

    Commencing HS2 in the North would bring investment into the regions and away from London for a change it would also see the North get new rolling stock and allow for increased freight on the historic lines.
  2. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    The whole network could do with upgrading before more money is thrown at the yanks to mismanage another west coast fiasco. The GW route is ripe for OLE, the great central could be revamped and reopened through Rugby and on to sheffield but then so many of the Beeching cuts could be reversed and lines reopened allowing the country to have better links. The one thing that isnt needed is Bechtel involvement or Virgin style rail franchises!
  3. I personally think that it is a total waste of money and would be better spent upgrading our existing network.
    However I would think that seeing as the proposed line is nigh on going through my back garden. Then i probably fall in to the bracket of being a NIMBY.
    Do i care? Like ****....
    Now with my unbiased head on , What i do not understand is why they would want to build this line without a link up with Heathrow. If you look at most of our European cousins they have linked all their High Speed lines with their major airports. So if you are going to do it at least do it properly....
  4. RANT ON

    I really think they should totally upgrade the Chiltern route Chiltern Railways - Cheap train tickets & UK train times, timetables & fares electrify it. Great Western is slated for electrification now but only to Cardiff... no business case to Swansea...!

    Midland is down for electrification and so is Northern Hub, but the north of England really needs investment.

    What I really do not understand about HS2 is that it will only shave minutes off the Birmingham London journey.

    Great Central has had building on the track bed... expensive bypasses would be needed.

    Finally, I think they should continue the gauge enhancement route for the container trains... get the trucks off the roads from Southampton and Felixstow.

  5. Doesn't bother me, nowhere near my back yard.

    I'm intrigued to think how they are going to make money from it when it only replicates the journeys of already established lines. It may be faster, but then it will be much more expensive and I think people would rather pay less for a slightly longer journey time.

    I would like to see a better approach to mass transit, for instance car freight trains that allow us to move with our vehicles up and down the country in a similar way to the Chunnel - it's a cheap option to implement, relieves congestion and would save the motorist time money and fatigue.
  6. And the terminus Station for Brum does not even take you to the centre, near the NEC or even the Airport ?????
  7. I like how they refer to Manchester/Leeds as "north" when if you look at a map, there is still quite a bit more land north of Manchester.
  8. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    I agree with Dingerr, when I have to go by rail to Brum I allow 25 minutes more and go via Marylebone, a nicer journey and I like the diesel throb!
    Linking High speed lines with airports is grand but linking the airports to what?
    Heathrow is in a bad spot unless you make GW high speed. The only High speed link currently missesairports and should in theory link to CdG as a new airport here is environmetally difficult!
    You could link Chilterns (the southern end of the old GCR) to Heathrow but why bother, at the moment Rugby station is too small for its needs and they are looking at building on the site of the old GCR lines just outside town.
    There is little justification for a new line unless you are a big consultancy or builder bidding for work.
    Building or improving on existing lines to allow HS trains in doesnt work, we have EPS North of London to prove that. What a massive waste of money that was, all we did was throw money at moving platform edges back, reprofiling junctions and lowering shunts, SPTs and speed signs for a test train that only ran 2 or 3 times!
    What is needed is a clear transport policy properly funded that willl make the orinary unsexy working lives of everyday commuters more tolerable and affordable not fecking pie in the sky dreams that will bankrupt the railways for years and lumber them with wierd next generation euro signalling that no one needs or wants thanks to compatibility standards with an already bankrupt neighbour who wont bring his trains here anyway!
  9. Seems a bad idea to invest in HS2 in an era when even normal train travel is unaffordable for most people. I think they should use the money (more UK debt?) to increase capacity and efficiency of existing commuter services, or try to drive down the cost of rail travel.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. The cost is also incredibly high £17 Billion for the 1st part London to Brum then a further £13 Billion for the remainder of the project.
  11. My bold. Because LHR is already overloaded with traffic. By not building the additional runway for LHR, the labour government ensured that LHR would become a secondary hub for Europe instead of a primary hub. Already, some airlines have started to fly direct into Europe instead of using the London option. E.g., Thai Air have just started flying into Brussels, giving people the option of avoiding London altogether.
  12. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Cost escelate as soon as you finish reading them they have risen, when I started consulting in the late 90's a metre of double track (allowing for the route already owned) was £100o, ergo £1m per Km. Signalling was the variable but OLE was fixed as technology was stable.
    Signalling for a small station like Leamington Spa was about £2m. You dont get much for that mind, by 2006 only 10 years later it would cost £10m to do Leamington Spa and the technology was decidely unchanged. the railway has itself to blame forcing up prices for everything in a manner that MoD procurement would probably hold up as being exemplary!
    Its all very shocking and deciding to build a new line is prohibitively expensive as it requires land and permission which both have to be bought!
    The existing West Coast Mail Line suffers from being 2 railways built at different times to increase capacity and also to stifle competition. the tunnels are to small and the gauge for clearnces too narrow. Yes build a new railway but there are ways of building new lines by enhancing existing ones, building alongside again but to a better standard and reopining disused bits to create diversions, loops and run rounds.
    In the late 90's I connected the Hams Hall freight terminal to the main line for about £2.5M but the roundabout outside it cost £4m.
  13. Haven't the Home Counties & West Coast lines had enough investment/upgrades? It's about time they did something about the East Coast lines, there are still some routes were a guy walks in front of the train with a feckin' flag..... or at least it seems like that given the journey times.
  14. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    But London doesnt need the extra air traffic, its overcrowded and extra runways and planes arent welcome by the tree huggers. Let them all land in Europe and then come the rest of the way by train!
  15. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    It needs investment but in signalling and reopening freight loops etc, ECML got the last big spend by BR in the 1970's on the very good electrification!