Hidden Motivations

[CutLunchCommando]

I have had a look for a suitable existing thread to post this in but can't find one so if anyone knows of a better 'ole for this suggest it and we'll get a mod to move it.

I listen to a podcast called Groks Science and the latest episode to reach my ears is to be found here. Elephant Brain
The chap being interviewed (Dr. Robin Hanson) is co-author of a book called "The Elephant in your Brain". Essentially their thesis is that the concious mind is the press secretary of the brain making up plausible excuses for what you doing, which is actually shaped by your sub-concious. This is probably not a new idea for most of you but they push the idea a bit further to consider the impact of this on how our institutions actually function in the face of participants who not only have hidden agendas but are fundamentally unaware of what those agendas truly are.

He discusses various institutions including politics and religion and talks about the hidden motivation of individuals (and therefore their actions) with respect to these being largely to do with demonstrating loyalty to the group. I did consider just dropping it into a Brexit thread or two but actually I think the leadership and management implications for the army might make an interesting dicussion in its own right.

 

[overopensights]

The National Geographic Magazine for this month has for a theme 'The Human Brain' I think you may find it interesting?

 

[CutLunchCommando]

Tried to order the book and was told it is temporarily unavailable, The shop bloke thinks this means it is being reprinted as it has sold out.

 

[overopensights]

Tried to order the book and was told it is temporarily unavailable, The shop bloke thinks this means it is being reprinted as it has sold out.

I will be in town today, I will check here for you.

 

[overopensights]

Tried to order the book and was told it is temporarily unavailable, The shop bloke thinks this means it is being reprinted as it has sold out.

I found a copy, if you would like it, I will slip it into the post, if you wish then let me have your work or home address.

 

[CutLunchCommando]

I found a copy, if you would like it, I will slip it into the post, if you wish then let me have your work or home address.

Apologies @overopensights I'd quite forgotten about your kind offer. As it happens I was looking for a copy because I was anticipating a bit of travel and would have a bit of reading time. The travel had subsequntly evaporated or rather took a different form so the need for reading material has evaporated for the moment.

 

[Gary Cooper]

Tried to order the book and was told it is temporarily unavailable, The shop bloke thinks this means it is being reprinted as it has sold out.

Available at Amazon

The Elephant in the Brain: Hidden Motives in Everyday Life

Amazon product

 

[Gary Cooper]

.......
The chap being interviewed (Dr. Robin Hanson) is co-author of a book called "The Elephant in your Brain". Essentially their thesis is that the concious mind is the press secretary of the brain making up plausible excuses for what you doing, which is actually shaped by your sub-concious....

Many of our modern-day problems are probably caused by the fact that we are apes with a thin veneer of civilisation tacked on. I wonder how much mental illness is caused by the higher mind contradicting our instincts.

 

[smartascarrots]

I wonder how much mental illness is caused by the higher mind contradicting our instincts.

Politics and religion, for starters. I may include Association Football in a darker mood.

 

[Joe_Private]

Politics and religion, for starters. I may include Association Football in a darker mood.

Don't our instincts revolve around tribalism? Every culture around the world that has had any success has always had a tribal "them and us" mentality. Football fans are very tribal, as are those who ascribe to the more extreme religious or political beliefs. I would also think that people who are mentally unstable are more inclined to be drawn to groups with a strong "them and us" culture.

 

[napier]

And this is one of the reasons why some, on leaving the forces, have a hard time adjusting. Whatever your thoughts about your time in green, dark blue or grey polyester, most will have experienced a form of tribal belonging that is much rarer in the 'real' world. Having gone from a family (for many) into the forces at a young age, you may experience an existence much more attuned to one you have evolved to fit (hierarchical, masculine, physical, loyal(ish)) and will spend your formative years there. Your civilian mates will 'grow up' in modern western society and will get used to it; the serviceman (or woman) will drop in in their 20s/30s and find themselves in an episode of Game of Thrones.

 

[CutLunchCommando]

Don't our instincts revolve around tribalism? Every culture around the world that has had any success has always had a tribal "them and us" mentality.

This is essentially his point. Tribal members behaviour is principally driven by showing unconscious loyalty to the group rather than being entirely rational. However we consciously believe that we have thought about it and carried out any actions based on a sound decision.

 

[smartascarrots]

Don't our instincts revolve around tribalism?

The precise definition of the tribe is flexible, else there would be no social group larger than the tribe.

I'd go so far as to say that everybody is a member of more than one 'tribe' simultaneously, making the whole tribal loyalty thing even more ridiculous than it is at first sight.

 

[Gary Cooper]

Don't our instincts revolve around tribalism? .....

I would say that self-interest is a stronger motivation than tribalism. Even things that are seen as tribalism are essentially motivated by self-interest. Mistrust of those from outside the group is based on the caveman's fear of outsiders competing for scarce resources and who represent a threat to the survival of your tribe

 

[bob_the_bomb]

I have had a look for a suitable existing thread to post this in but can't find one so if anyone knows of a better 'ole for this suggest it and we'll get a mod to move it.

I listen to a podcast called Groks Science and the latest episode to reach my ears is to be found here. Elephant Brain
The chap being interviewed (Dr. Robin Hanson) is co-author of a book called "The Elephant in your Brain". Essentially their thesis is that the concious mind is the press secretary of the brain making up plausible excuses for what you doing, which is actually shaped by your sub-concious. This is probably not a new idea for most of you but they push the idea a bit further to consider the impact of this on how our institutions actually function in the face of participants who not only have hidden agendas but are fundamentally unaware of what those agendas truly are.

He discusses various institutions including politics and religion and talks about the hidden motivation of individuals (and therefore their actions) with respect to these being largely to do with demonstrating loyalty to the group. I did consider just dropping it into a Brexit thread or two but actually I think the leadership and management implications for the army might make an interesting dicussion in its own right.

My sister is a psychotherapist. She put me onto a concept called 'Transactional Analysis' which talks about something very similar. It's been around for years apparently


Transactional analysis - Wikipedia



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yokel]

How do tribal instincts influence things like unconcious bias, or the way emotion trumps logic when making decisions?

 

[CutLunchCommando]

From the same podcast: Groks Science Radio Show and Podcast - Moral Fate -— Groks Science Show 2020-11-25

Similar themes to my original post so I put it here rather than make a new thread.

 

[instinct]

And this is one of the reasons why some, on leaving the forces, have a hard time adjusting. Whatever your thoughts about your time in green, dark blue or grey polyester, most will have experienced a form of tribal belonging that is much rarer in the 'real' world. Having gone from a family (for many) into the forces at a young age, you may experience an existence much more attuned to one you have evolved to fit (hierarchical, masculine, physical, loyal(ish)) and will spend your formative years there. Your civilian mates will 'grow up' in modern western society and will get used to it; the serviceman (or woman) will drop in in their 20s/30s and find themselves in an episode of Game of Thrones.

Sebastian Junger, the journalist responsible for The perfect storm, Restrepo and So on, has recently wrote a book im reading all about tribalism and how it effects people when they leave the modern day tribe and return to "civilization".

Called, unsurprisingly, Tribe.

Tribe On amazon

 

[napier]

Sebastian Junger, the journalist responsible for The perfect storm, Restrepo and So on, has recently wrote a book im reading all about tribalism and how it effects people when they leave the modern day tribe and return to "civilization".

Called, unsurprisingly, Tribe.

Tribe On amazon

Bought it quite a while back - good book

 

[Old Stab]

There's a series of 3 books called "The Chimp Paradox" by IIRC Prof Steve Peters.
Very good read.