Here's an funny old pic from the BBC news site

IIRC this was the A-frame one, sometimes known as the SAS bergen:

3CFA3A29-336A-4B95-8538-76EBAB75E9BA.jpeg


This was the Para bergen, but the pack frame could be used for hanging all sorts off:

65E02AB0-B945-43EE-97C9-81A2698DB902.jpeg


Used both, marginally preferred A-frame.
 
Nope. Not A frames. More like H. They were rectangular, like a very short ladder, made of alloy, with holes at intervals along both sides, and all of the 5 or 6 horizontals. This gave you an infinity of options for affixing shoulder straps, and for using straps utility to lash burdens of all shapes and size to the metal frame, which was kept off your back by 3 or 4 more tensioned horizontal webbing straps.
You're absolutely correct though we called them A Frames... then again that was in the much less enlightened mid 1960s!;)
 
Nope. Not A frames. More like H. They were rectangular, like a very short ladder, made of alloy, with holes at intervals along both sides, and all of the 5 or 6 horizontals. This gave you an infinity of options for affixing shoulder straps, and for using straps utility to lash burdens of all shapes and size to the metal frame, which was kept off your back by 3 or 4 more tensioned horizontal webbing straps.
We had them in Mortar platoon, referred to as Murphy carriers I seem to remember. Lugging a barrel strapped onto one of them was great fun. Not.
 
IIRC this was the A-frame one, sometimes known as the SAS bergen:

View attachment 445089

This was the Para bergen, but the pack frame could be used for hanging all sorts off:

View attachment 445090

Used both, marginally preferred A-frame.
The Bergen came in two flavours. Identical frame (which was also the same as the Clansman one) but two different sizes of ‘bag’. We were using the small bag (the ‘GS Bergan’) on RoCo until the DS noticed that it was trapping the nerves of around 10% of the course. Due no doubt to the ridiculous weight we were carrying.

One guy couldn’t lift his right arm above his shoulder, even after he took off his bergan. It was fun watching him do the helicopter rope drills though...
 
IIRC this was the A-frame one, sometimes known as the SAS bergen:

View attachment 445089

This was the Para bergen, but the pack frame could be used for hanging all sorts off:

View attachment 445090

Used both, marginally preferred A-frame.
I borrowed one of the top variety for my Pl Comd course.

Norwegian-made, by BergAn (until then I thought Bergan was a misspelling)

Fvcking awful thing :-(

I also used the one in the lower pictures.

Once.

And found it as bad as @bob_the_bomb says. Also found the bags for the frame only came in Size Too.

That is, Sizes Too Fvcking Small and Too Fvcking Big.
 
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IIRC the olive combats were the ‘60 pattern’ combats, replaced by the DPM ‘68 pattern’. The 60 pattern jacket had a very stiff collar with rows of parallel stitching, and the original 68 pattern jackets had the same.

I was at the Duke of York’s in the ‘70s and we had 37 pattern webbing, 60 pattern combats and BD trousers (issued but never worn). ‘88 and ‘62 radio sets and, of course, THE* rifle.

i.e. the one before THAT rifle:)


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That must have been a Cinque Ports thing as I was down the hill from you at Dover College in the 70s. Rather sure the crap we as a CCF wore was left after Dunkirk. BD jackets and trousers and gaters. Drill boots and the jolly old .303. We even used the fire rattle for the bren gun.
 
That must have been a Cinque Ports thing as I was down the hill from you at Dover College in the 70s. Rather sure the crap we as a CCF wore was left after Dunkirk. BD jackets and trousers and gaters. Drill boots and the jolly old .303. We even used the fire rattle for the bren gun.
I'm going to bet his was an ACF (clothed and equipped at Army expense). CCF clothing was the responsibility of the school (a hangover from the very first days of CCFs, established circa 1901as a low-budget expedient to deliver large numbers of young officers in the event of war with Kaiser Bill's massed armies)

ACFs were established post WW2, by a committee chaired by Fitzroy MacLean (Google him), and the differences were still in place circa 2001.
 
I'm going to bet his was an ACF (clothed and equipped at Army expense). CCF clothing was the responsibility of the school (a hangover from the very first days of CCFs, established circa 1901as a low-budget expedient to deliver large numbers of young officers in the event of war with Kaiser Bill's massed armies)

ACFs were established post WW2, by a committee chaired by Fitzroy MacLean (Google him), and the differences were still in place circa 2001.
As the DYRMS was a still military unit at the time - had its own colours, UIN, cap badge was in that 70’s poster of army capbadges etc, it was a bit of a hybrid. It was treated as a ‘public school’ in many respects. We played rugby against the other public schools and we had a CCF which was compulsory. But we also had ‘military training’ during the week, block jobs and outside areas. And bed blocks.

Oh and school dances (with booze (!)) to which we regularly invited the girls from Dover College!
 
That must have been a Cinque Ports thing as I was down the hill from you at Dover College in the 70s. Rather sure the crap we as a CCF wore was left after Dunkirk. BD jackets and trousers and gaters. Drill boots and the jolly old .303. We even used the fire rattle for the bren gun.
You are on the filmset of 'If', and I claim my 3s/6d.
 
As the DYRMS was a still military unit at the time - had its own colours, UIN, cap badge was in that 70’s poster of army capbadges etc, it was a bit of a hybrid. It was treated as a ‘public school’ in many respects. We played rugby against the other public schools and we had a CCF which was compulsory. But we also had ‘military training’ during the week, block jobs and outside areas. And bed blocks.

Oh and school dances (with booze (!)) to which we regularly invited the girls from Dover College!
ACF making believe CCF :wink:

Mind you, all CCFs have been making believe since 1919. Prior to that, the Cadet trading was strictly overseen by the Army, and cadets were formally trained in all aspects of soldiering, including tactics up to at least Company level, with cadets occupying command appointments at all levels, and emerging with recognised Certificates of Military Training.
 
ACF making believe CCF :wink:

Mind you, all CCFs have been making believe since 1919. Prior to that, the Cadet trading was strictly overseen by the Army, and cadets were formally trained in all aspects of soldiering, including tactics up to at least Company level, with cadets occupying command appointments at all levels, and emerging with recognised Certificates of Military Training.
It wasn’t too far off that even then...

We had a few serving RAEC teachers, the gym Queen was APTC, the military instructors, bandies and QM were on LSL, and about 50% of the other teachers were Ex military.
 
It wasn’t too far off that even then...
I don't doubt you, but since national survival since 1919 was no longer dependent on a ready (and generous) supply of young battle-ready gentlemen to lead the hoi polloi against the beastly Hun, the CCF system more widely was in decline.

ACF was not aimed at young gentlemen (sons of the manse), but at common or garden blokes - the rank and file of the future.
 
Wasn’t the CCF originally known as the Junior Division of the OTC?
 
Wasn’t the CCF originally known as the Junior Division of the OTC?
Only if I'm much mistaken about CCFs pre-dating OTCs by about a half-century (although I'll confess to never having researched the history of the OTC, whereas I had to produce a summary history of both ACF and CCF in order to demonstrate to HQ LAND how the accountability structures between Army and Cadets had atrophied to the point of ineffectuality in the years after WW2)
 
Only if I'm much mistaken about CCFs pre-dating OTCs by about a half-century (although I'll confess to never having researched the history of the OTC, whereas I had to produce a summary history of both ACF and CCF in order to demonstrate to HQ LAND how the accountability structures between Army and Cadets had atrophied to the point of ineffectuality in the years after WW2)
Well don't stop there!!

Tell us more . . What happened next?! ;) .
 
Well don't stop there!!

Tell us more . . What happened next?! ;) .
It was a bolting of the stable door exercise: the 1* Hd of Reserves and Cadets was being formally held liable (by H&SE? I forget) for the death of a young girl ACF cadet, run over by an adult instructor in a lannie during a night exercise, and the Army-Cadet CoC was so atrophied (year on year on year of reorgs and cuts, but no change to the Cadet Regulations, just a corporate history of bodge-jobbing ad hoc expedients) that no individual could be found at a lower level with whom the legal buck could satisfactorily stop - so the Brig carried the can, and wanted to figure out where to start the business of re-establishing an effective chain of accountability.

After that - I dunno, I was on my way out of the Army soon after.
 
Spot on The Duke of Yorks was a sponsored school with MoD funding, Dover College was school sponsored.
No need to Google Fitzroy as I have his books in the bookcase, cracking reads.
 

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