Henry Jackson Society

#1
Found this article whilst doing 'the rounds' online.

The British Moment
By The Henry Jackson Society (Published by The Social Affairs Unit)


The Henry Jackson Society is a non-profit and non-partisan organisation that seeks to promote the following principles: that liberal democracy should be spread across the world; that as the world’s most powerful democracies, the United States and the European Union – under British leadership – must shape the world more actively by intervention and example; that such leadership requires political will, a commitment to universal human rights and the maintenance of a strong military with global expeditionary reach; and that too few of our leaders in Britain and the rest of Europe today are ready to play a role in the world that matches our strength and responsibilities.
One of the signatories of the statement of principles is Col. Tim Collins (amongst others!)

Full list can be found here

I wonder if this means Col. Collins will be entering British politics sooner rather than later?
 
#3
CutLunchCommando said:
An interesting site.

I did spot this though schoolboy howler in the priciples list though:

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Of course it should be

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies SHOULD set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Since you don't think they do, which civilization do you feel *does* set such an example?
 
#4
Yank_Lurker said:
CutLunchCommando said:
An interesting site.

I did spot this though schoolboy howler in the priciples list though:

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Of course it should be

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies SHOULD set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Since you don't think they do, which civilization do you feel *does* set such an example?
Is this cos your in a Bad Temper with Expat 71?

Edited to add the letter in red.
 
#5
Yank_Lurker said:
CutLunchCommando said:
An interesting site.

I did spot this though schoolboy howler in the priciples list though:

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Of course it should be

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies SHOULD set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Since you don't think they do, which civilization do you feel *does* set such an example?
I think the point he was getting at is that the self-proclaimed forces of light and freedom often don't live up to their own hype and can do more harm than good, because they're too busy wallowing in their own hubris to think carefully about what they're doing before they jump in with both feet.
 
#6
I don't recall the exact quote, but Churchill had some very disparaging comments about democracy before summing up with, "But it's the best thing we've come up with".

Plato's Parable of the Cave comes to mind as well.

I loathe paying taxes, I got pulled over for speeding last month by the fuzz, I think blue laws suck (I'm not particularly religious, why can't I buy beer at 8 AM on a Sunday when I get off mids shift?), and I'd really kill for a jagerschnitzel right now, but I can think of a lot worse places to be than the US of A. I'm sure you can as well. Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch. :)
 
#7
Yank_Lurker said:
I don't recall the exact quote, but Churchill had some very disparaging comments about democracy before summing up with, "But it's the best thing we've come up with".

Plato's Parable of the Cave comes to mind as well.

I loathe paying taxes, I got pulled over for speeding last month by the fuzz, I think blue laws suck (I'm not particularly religious, why can't I buy beer at 8 AM on a Sunday when I get off mids shift?), and I'd really kill for a jagerschnitzel right now, but I can think of a lot worse places to be than the US of A. I'm sure you can as well. Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch. :)
"We're #1 so why try harder?"

WORK IN PROGRESS...EDITED POST TO FOLLOW
 
#8
Yank_Lurker said:
I don't recall the exact quote, but Churchill had some very disparaging comments about democracy before summing up with, "But it's the best thing we've come up with".

Plato's Parable of the Cave comes to mind as well.

I loathe paying taxes, I got pulled over for speeding last month by the fuzz, I think blue laws suck (I'm not particularly religious, why can't I buy beer at 8 AM on a Sunday when I get off mids shift?), and I'd really kill for a jagerschnitzel right now, but I can think of a lot worse places to be than the US of A. I'm sure you can as well. Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch. :)
Not disagreeing with you, but part of liberal democracy, especially the American project, is the acknowledgement that the system isn't perfect, but one should always try and improve it. Just because you are better than everyone else, it doesn't mean that you're as good as you can get.
 
#9
CutLunchCommando said:
Yank_Lurker said:
CutLunchCommando said:
An interesting site.

I did spot this though schoolboy howler in the priciples list though:

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Of course it should be

1. Believes that modern liberal democracies SHOULD set an example to which the rest of the world should aspire.
Since you don't think they do, which civilization do you feel *does* set such an example?
Is this cos your in a Bad Temper with Expat 71?

Edited to add the letter in red.
Nope, just querying the basis of your complaint.

As to "We're #1, why try harder"? Well there are plenty of things I'd like to see improved in the way our country does business, most specifically a stronger adherence to the principles outlined in our Constitution. But the last time I read about an "honor killing" around here, the perp was sent to prison. There was a major police corruption case locally--busted by the FBI, DEA, IRS, and US Postal Inspectors (ferGodssakes!), and the perps are going to prison. Female mutilation doesn't happen too frequently, and the local mall hasn't been bombed recently. In the last election, the loser went home peacefully and there were no riots, and no coup attempts. Nope I'm not by any means sanguine about the state of our democracies, but you and I are both living in what 99% of our ancestors--and probably 90% of the world's current population!--would consider a political/economic paradise on Earth. Whenever I read news articles that get my blood pressure up, I try to remind myself that our lives ("our" as in Western society's) are better than even our great grandparents ever dared dream. Try not to get too eaten up over the bad stuff. :)
 
#10
(Apologies for the delay in replying but CLC jr is teething and I periodically have to go and comfort him.)

Yank_Lurker said:
I don't recall the exact quote, but Churchill had some very disparaging comments about democracy before summing up with, "But it's the best thing we've come up with".

Plato's Parable of the Cave comes to mind as well.

I loathe paying taxes, I got pulled over for speeding last month by the fuzz, I think blue laws suck (I'm not particularly religious, why can't I buy beer at 8 AM on a Sunday when I get off mids shift?), and I'd really kill for a jagerschnitzel right now, but I can think of a lot worse places to be than the US of A. I'm sure you can as well. Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch. :)
I know the quote you mean. My take is that he had a pragmatic recognition that an "imperfect" workable solution is prefereable to an "ideal" but unworkable solution. I dont think he meant "We're #1 so why try harder."

Let me try an anology. Your a squaddy/grunt/leatherneck in a sub-unit due to have a new Platoon Commander/Leader appointed. He turns up criticizes the way things have been done before and imposes a set of standards which he himself visibly fails to adhere to. Can you tell me how you and your colleagues would feel about that? Would it lead to the Platoon Commander / Leaders objectives being achieved in as timely a fashion as possible?

You yourself note that concentration camps were devised by the British. I have no particular problem with people knowing that. I don't feel the need to deny it. In fact I think that it should be taught in schools. Not as some act of self-flagellating do-goodery but so that the citizens of the United Kingdom know what can happen when in their name and guard against such stupidity happening again.

We all know that it still does, regardless of the legality of the British Army actions on "Bloody Sunday" only the most perverse of criteria could be used to classify them as a positive step for the COIN effort.

This following section was added after reading Y_Ls "Querying the basis of your complaint post".

Its not a complaint. If anything it's a suggestion that we raise our aim.
We must be seen to be attempting to maintain the highest standards (practicality again). Our objective according to the Henry Jackson society is to positively influence those societies/states which we feel could benefit from it (note "we feel" not those which "we know would because the great referee in the sky has said we're right") it is not simply to be impervious to their influence.

To be blunt WE must influnce them as effectively as possible to acheive our aim so WE must adjust our behaviour accordingly.

BTW I too enjoy my freedoms and don't propose to give them up any time soon.
 
#11
Eehhhh well, Henry "Scoop" Jackson was a John Bircher, too. I'm a fairly right wing guy, but you'll never catch me at a John Birch Society meeting. They're REALLY over the top.

Don't take the statements or views of a "Henry Jackson Society" or "John Birch Society" member to be particularly representative of even the right-hand side of the American political spectrum.
 
#12
Henry Scoop Jackson- the Senator from Boeing. ;)
 
#14
Yank_Lurker said:
Don't take the statements or views of a "Henry Jackson Society" or "John Birch Society" member to be particularly representative of even the right-hand side of the American political spectrum.
I can't find a definite statement to back it up on the website but The Henry Jackson society appears to be a wholly British affair. I notice David Trimble is another signatory.
In fact there's a definite NI tinge to the whole thing.
 
#15
CutLunchCommando said:
To be blunt WE must influnce them as effectively as possible to acheive our aim so WE must adjust our behaviour accordingly.

No thanks. :D
 
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