Help with Pickelhaube identification and potential restoration

napier

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
Hi All,
I have had, for some years, a German Pickelhaube. A cursory look at the internet shows many types/variants but I'm guessing it is a WW1-era other ranks general issue (Infantry?) one. It's worn and missing a few bits; I could just leave it alone, but I'm tempted to look for chinstrap, cockade, etc. (ideally not repro) and maybe fix some of the stitching. Thoughts from the collected wisdom of ARRSE?
ph oblique.jpg
ph side.jpg
ph back.jpg
ph inside.jpg
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
I'd get in touch with these people. If they take it on, it'll be a very sympathetic restoration and a good watch for everybody.
 
it's earlier . The Initials are FR so Frederick 1831-1888- only Emperor for 99 days and was succeeded by Wilhelm II, So I would imagine quite a rarity given that Badges normally changed with the Monarch. From the banding round the peak possible officers.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
If you do restore it yourself make sure the pointy bit stays point up and on the outside. On a serious note, I'd check if it's pukka and get a grown up to restore if it worth a few quid.
 
Freddy was one of those might have beens. Sadly he died of throat Cancer and Wilhelm who wasn’t meant to succeed, but did. Frederick didn’t see eye to eye with Bismarck, but I suspect he wouldn’t have ditched him in quite the same way, possibly moved him sideways and reduced his power. Interesting find.
 
Freddy was one of those might have beens. Sadly he died of throat Cancer and Wilhelm who wasn’t meant to succeed, but did. Frederick didn’t see eye to eye with Bismarck, but I suspect he wouldn’t have ditched him in quite the same way, possibly moved him sideways and reduced his power. Interesting find.
At least he invented a decent way of drinking champagne
 
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dlrg

LE
Hi All,
I have had, for some years, a German Pickelhaube. A cursory look at the internet shows many types/variants but I'm guessing it is a WW1-era other ranks general issue (Infantry?) one. It's worn and missing a few bits; I could just leave it alone, but I'm tempted to look for chinstrap, cockade, etc. (ideally not repro) and maybe fix some of the stitching. Thoughts from the collected wisdom of ARRSE?
View attachment 461946View attachment 461947View attachment 461948View attachment 461949
I would say early WW1 Prussian Infantry. The lining looks to be Other Ranks. The spike (Pickel) looks to be quite tall for OR's but round studs are used for the mount -indicating OR's (Officer helmets usually have stars).

The FR on the front plate refers to Frederick William IV King of Prussia 1795-1861.

You might find this video useful:

 
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The pickelhaube is the 1895 line infantry pattern, with a Prussian Koenig FR (Fredrich Rex) helmet plate used between 1860 and 1918
From: The Pickelhaube Volume 1 Line Infantry by J.A.Bowman (1989)
 
I would say early WW1 Prussian Infantry. The lining looks to be Other Ranks. The spike (Pickel) looks to be quite tall for OR's but round studs are used for the mount -indicating OR's (Officer helmets usually have stars).

The FR on the front plate refers to Frederick William IV King of Prussia 1795-1861.

You might find this video useful:

Thanks, the definition on my laptop didn’t show up the Koenig under the Eagle so assumed it was Emperor. So as you say must predate 1870. F R being Frederick Rex . I must say I would be surprised if Wilhelms units were still carrying Fredericks badge as late as that. He had been Emperor since 1888.
 
Hi All,
I have had, for some years, a German Pickelhaube. A cursory look at the internet shows many types/variants but I'm guessing it is a WW1-era other ranks general issue (Infantry?) one. It's worn and missing a few bits; I could just leave it alone, but I'm tempted to look for chinstrap, cockade, etc. (ideally not repro) and maybe fix some of the stitching. Thoughts from the collected wisdom of ARRSE?
View attachment 461946View attachment 461947View attachment 461948View attachment 461949
Nice helmet!

FWIW I'd go with the suggestions to have it done by someone who knows the subject - the Pickelhaube Resoration website would probably be the best place to start.

The Repair Shop tv program team are very good (my wife watches it all the time) but I have seen very little evidence that they know anything about military antiques. They would smarten it up but might also make some inappropriate "repairs".

Great subject for a thread though, let us know how it goes. Militaria can be very interesting to collect. I have several antique bayonets from the 1870s up to WW1 - it is fascinating to wonder they were issued to and what happened to them. I'd be interested to know if find out any more about your pickelhaube.
 

dlrg

LE
Thanks, the definition on my laptop didn’t show up the Koenig under the Eagle so assumed it was Emperor. So as you say must predate 1870. F R being Frederick Rex . I must say I would be surprised if Wilhelms units were still carrying Fredericks badge as late as that. He had been Emperor since 1888.
It was during the reign of Frederick William IV of Prussia that the Pickelhaube was developed. The use of the 'FR' monogramm was. I believe, retained as a mark of tradition/respect and bears no relation to the year of helmet manufacture (nor indeed the actual age of the Eagle Shield itself).

@LeoRoverman - Edited for clarity
 
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It was during the reign of Frederick William IV of Prussia that the Pickelhaube was developed. The use of the 'FR' monogramm was. I think, a mark of tradition/respect and bears no relation to the year of helmet manufacture.
Your probably right in that respect, but bearing in mind that Prussia Developed them from 1842, it may be a later helmet using the earlier badge. . Were it to be the original helmet it would be quite a find. The equivalent would be A regiment using GR monogrammed badge today since the cypher is ER . I know my Great grandad (German) probably wore one in 1870. He was Oldenburg infantry Regt 91.
 

dlrg

LE
I know my Great grandad (German) probably wore one in 1870. He was Oldenburg infantry Regt 91.
Possibly this patern helmet


1585862044406.png

Helm der Preußischen Linieninfanterie, Modell 1867

1585861905122.png

Wappen des Oldenburgischen
Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 91



Or the earlier patern

1585862656728.png

Helm der Preußischen Linieninfanterie, Modell 1860



A later version

1585862984175.png

 
Last edited:

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
Hi All,
I have had, for some years, a German Pickelhaube. A cursory look at the internet shows many types/variants but I'm guessing it is a WW1-era other ranks general issue (Infantry?) one. It's worn and missing a few bits; I could just leave it alone, but I'm tempted to look for chinstrap, cockade, etc. (ideally not repro) and maybe fix some of the stitching. Thoughts from the collected wisdom of ARRSE?
View attachment 461946View attachment 461947View attachment 461948View attachment 461949
You should see my study. Can't move for the fecking things...

 
Possibly this patern helmet


View attachment 462072
Helm der Preußischen Linieninfanterie, Modell 1867

View attachment 462071
Wappen des Oldenburgischen
Infanterie-Regiments Nr. 91



Or the earlier patern

View attachment 462073
Helm der Preußischen Linieninfanterie, Modell 1860



A later version

View attachment 462075
Probably , I have small shield with the Oldenburg coat of arms on the wall and my house bears the name Oldenburg. And here’s a funny thing. Although. Oldenburg took the ‘haube From 1844, they were still a French Garrison town till 1869. But I guess the EUropean revolutions of 1848 changed things quite a bit.
 

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