Help with identifying a 3rd pattern commando knife.

#1
Apologies in advance as I can't post any pics at the moment, but I'll do my best to describe the knife in question.

I bought a 3rd pattern commando knife today, but am not sure who made it.
I already had a 3rd pattern knife marked with a broad arrow and 'J Nowill and sons Sheffield England' on the cross guard and with the J Nowill crossed keys on the handle. The handle on that knife has 27 rings and a hex nut at the pommel.
That knife has a cheap thin sheath with black rivets and squared off base.

This new knife only had a broad arrow and 'sheffield England' on the cross guard. This one has a slight recess in the shape of the blade cut into the front of the cross guard. It has no markings on the handle, but only has 25 rings on the handle, this rings aren't as pronounced as the J Nowill marked handle.
The pommel nut on this knife is a rounded off brass nut.
The sheath for this knife is made of thicker leather, brass rivets and has better stitching, the base of the sheath is rounded.

If there are any commando knife experts who can help identify the new knife that would be much appreciated.
 
#2
Apologies in advance as I can't post any pics at the moment, but I'll do my best to describe the knife in question.

I bought a 3rd pattern commando knife today, but am not sure who made it.
I already had a 3rd pattern knife marked with a broad arrow and 'J Nowill and sons Sheffield England' on the cross guard and with the J Nowill crossed keys on the handle. The handle on that knife has 27 rings and a hex nut at the pommel.
That knife has a cheap thin sheath with black rivets and squared off base.

This new knife only had a broad arrow and 'sheffield England' on the cross guard. This one has a slight recess in the shape of the blade cut into the front of the cross guard. It has no markings on the handle, but only has 25 rings on the handle, this rings aren't as pronounced as the J Nowill marked handle.
The pommel nut on this knife is a rounded off brass nut.
The sheath for this knife is made of thicker leather, brass rivets and has better stitching, the base of the sheath is rounded.

If there are any commando knife experts who can help identify the new knife that would be much appreciated.
Oh bugger

I gave a commando knife to a friends sons a few years ago.

I had it since 1981 and thought , as it had a crossed keys and a brass nut on the pommel so thought it was a fake.

How much did you pay? PM
 
#5
#6
Have you found this site in the course of your Googling? Forming of the Commandos
My main reference so far has been the book 'Fairbairn-Sykes commando dagger' by Leroy Thompson.

The problem with the knife I picked up today is that although it's Sheffield made it was never an issue knife as far as I can tell. The company who made it did make knives for the War Dept during WW2 but perhaps their WW2 knives had the the 27 ring handle like 3rd pattern Wilkinson Sword or J Nowill knives had.
 
#9
One of my school friends had one exactly as you described back in the early 80’s. It had belonged to a relative who’d been in the Royal Marines during the war. My friend was most put out at CCF camp that summer when he was told to remove it from his webbing.
 
#10
@Slime - I'll dig out my knives to do a ring count - from memory one is marked Wm Rodgers Sheffield - it's pretty small.
One was on a plaque knocked up at CTC the other was presented to 3Cdo Bde on Telic and, IIRC, c.2003 these were on sale for very little in a PRI at Chivenor - about £15.
I'm pretty sure the grip is cast aluminium on them - are you considering polishing it as well?
The Leroy Thompson books are good but the site @Tartan_Terrier linked to proved very useful (I've also got a WS FS1 and FS3 in stainless and I photocopied the www.gotavapen.se reference to it along with the WS sales blurb.
 
#11
I found the gotavapen site to be a good overview of the different types. I used the site to help identify mine when I got it, it's a WWII vintage second pattern B2.
 
#12
@paddyplanty

First of all, you have a 1st pattern!! That is a thing of beauty with a wonderfully crafted blade........ but then I didn't need to tell you that :) :)

I may decide to polish the handle, I'm not sure if its aluminium or some other alloy, all I've done so far is separate it from the knife and tested it with a magnet to make sure it was non ferrous.

If I do strip it I plan to strip the black coating using dettol first aid liquid as that's what people who strip die cast toy cars use.

I'll do some more reading on the site @Tartan_Terrier mentioned
 
#13
@Slime I think the WS FS1s are a bit of a vanity piece - can't recall what gotavapen says but I thought it relevant enough to print off.

My biggest regret is that an uncle (honorary) was in the Polish troop of 10(IA) Cdo but didn't talk about it much. Hadn't seen him for years as I was away but he gave away* his issued FS only a few months previous to finding out I'd got myself a Green lid!
* To a local lad who'd joined the RAF! Would have been great to have one with a provenance.
 
#14
@Slime I think the WS FS1s are a bit of a vanity piece - can't recall what gotavapen says but I thought it relevant enough to print off.

My biggest regret is that an uncle (honorary) was in the Polish troop of 10(IA) Cdo but didn't talk about it much. Hadn't seen him for years as I was away but he gave away* his issued FS only a few months previous to finding out I'd got myself a Green lid!
* To a local lad who'd joined the RAF! Would have been great to have one with a provenance.
I’d probably pay the lad a visit, tell him the story and see if he wanted to sell.
 
#18
So far I've stripped the coating from the blade and polished it, have polished the brass pommel nut and stripped and resprayed the metal base of the sheath.

The things that initially confused me about this knife was the recess in the guard and the 25 ring handle.
 

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