Help with"advising" someone they owe money

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by dave8307, Nov 25, 2008.

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  1. Two years ago we helped a friend of our sons who had nowhere to live. We let him stay with us over a period of 6 months and during that time he intermittently gave us housekeeping, borrow the car to go to Scotland, etc. (I know, I know!!). When he left, we found out from son he had also borrowed over £300 from son and was not forthcoming with the dosh.

    In April Mrs Dave got him to agree to pay £10/fortnight but then stopped in July because he was going on holiday (!!). Since then he has steadfastly refused to pay anything, so Mrs Dave decided to go the legal route and set up a claim with HMCS (Her Majestys Court Service) online.

    The delivery address for the Claim was his girlfriends. The Claim was returned to HMCS with "not known at this address, even though we are positive he lives there. We then re-sent the claim to his place of work, where his boss opened the mail, saw what it was about and returned that claim to HMCS.

    Spoke to HMCS this morning - they said we have to pay a further £40 to get a judge to rule that it can be served at his place of work, however there is no guarantee that we can ever get the money hack.

    We are pensioners and cannot afford the extra £40 (apparently, even if he accepts our claim, we can't claim this fee from him).

    Obviously it is now beyond a joke and I want to continue because it is a matter of principle to me. However, Mrs Dave wants to terminate the claim and put it down to experience (see previous paragraph for one reason).

    Apart from the baseball bat route, can anyone give me any idea where to go from here.

    Thanks

    edited a number of times due to mong spelling :)
     
  2. Carry on with the claim. If you do not get the money back (which is likely sadly) you will have the knowledge the court will have put a black mark against his character so when he goes to get loans cards mortgages etc it will show him up as a grade A shyster.

    HH
     
  3. How about wanted posters around the area where he lives explaining his deeds and should he have the balls to argue let him take you to court and get the judge to deal then. Hardly a character defamation as you have the proof otherwise . . .
     
  4. I have no legal qualifications but have had some personal experience of debt chasing.
    In my experience anything you do is unlikely to be productive if the scoundrel is determined to not pay the debt. Even if you get a court judgement against him he is unlikely to pay up. He may even claim that he can only afford 5p a month which the judge may well accept. If he doesn't pay up then the next recourse is to call in the bailiffs, this can be expensive and fruitless if he has no assets so the next recourse is to apply to the courts to have the instalments stopped from his wages, again you have the expense of going back to court, the employer is also entitled to a small fee for his troubles which is taken out of the money owed to you.
    A CCJ only lasts for 6 years and then it is wiped off the records whether it has been fulfilled or not.
    Sorry, not good news unfortunately.
     
  5. This is not legal advise just speaking from the heart .

    If the money involved is a large sum and your friend is really being uncooperative. You can consider taking legal action. But before you do, I advise that you rethink everything and determine if it’s really worth it.
    Your friend is innocent until proven guilty, which means you would have to substantiate evidence that he has indeed borrowed money from you and promised to pay it back. Fortunately, verbal agreements can be binding in the absence of a written contract although this evidence tends to be weak in court. Also, do consider that the law is complicated and anything could happen in the end.the best thing to do is to sit down and have a serious and honest talk about the situation. Be straightforward and calm. Sincerely ask him the reason why he’s having a hard time meeting the payment deadline
    Remind them about the loan a few days before his promised date of payment. Don’t feel awkward in doing this. A friendly email or a simple text message telling him that you need the money he promised for a personal obligation will not appear rude at all.
    Assess your financial situation and determine if you really need the money. If not, then it might be wiser to just let go. Forget about the money and take the lesson instead. Let go of the anger, don’t blame yourself for being so trusting and move on.Of course you shouldn’t give up and let go without trying to resolve the situation.
     
  6. I would go to the local pub and look for phil and Grant Mitchell types. Walk in with a stick and play up the part of being a pensioner with no money, Xmas and winter coming etc. Offer them a percentage of what he owes you. Probably quicker and more effective than court.
     
  7. Dave if he borrowed the money from your son is there any reason why your son cannot pay the £40/pursue the outstanding debt himself?
     
  8. Thanks for your tips so far, chaps - I'm working on asking the sprog for the £40, but I've got a few other actions in mind - I just wanted to see if anyone else had similar thoughts to me or similar experiences.

    Keep posting, guys, it's very interesting so far.

    Thanks again

    Dave
     
  9. I personally think that violence is the only way to make scum like him acknowledge his responsibilities. Sounds like he knows the system and will probably get away with it, barring a massive amount of time, money and effort spent on your part.

    As mentioned previously, Grant Mitchell types can sort this out comfortably.
     
  10. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    You can pay a process server to personally serve the papers at the defendant's address.

    The difficulty here is that there is no formal contract, and you will therefore find it dificult to prove what the agreement to repay was. If the claim is served upon him he can submit a defence that he thought the money was a gift, or that it could be paid back whenever he felt like it. It is for the Claimant (you) to prove that the debt is owed, not for the defendant to prove that it isn't.

    If he doesn't respond, you can apply for a default judgment, but even then he can ask the Court to let him pay by istalments, and these can be very small - £1/month, for example. Once set, you can't vary the amount without returning to Court and paying another fee. If he fails to pay, you can go back to Court to take enforcement action - another fee. You can add some of these fees to the debt, but ultimately it may cost you dearly to prove a point.

    The only positive thing about getting a default judgment is that it will be on his credit file for 6 years. However, he could apply to get it set aside for various reasons and then you'll be back to square one.

    In my view, it's not worth pursuing legally. It will cost you more financially and emotionally than it's worth.
     
  11. I am sorry to add to the bad news that is generally posted about yoru chances of sucess....

    But Mrs Dave's case is fundementally flawed and is bound to fail because she had no contract with the naughty laddie.

    Your son is the one who has the right to pursue the debt not the Mrs.

    So if you intend to follow it through, you coul dpersonally serve the naughtie laddie with the papers again. I suspect you could do this yourself but you will need to file and affidavit saying how you indentified him, where you served him and at what time etc. That will get you over the first hurdle.

    before you do that howeverm you need to get your son to "sell" the debt to your Mrs. so she has the right to bring the claim. I beleive that she BOUGHT the debt from your son before she issued the application ? That is the second point.

    As many a folk have said to you already, even if you do get Judgement, your problem will be in enforecement - actaully getting the money from him. You could just sit on the judgement until he starts working etc then pursue him ...or as someone else said,hope he will cough up later because it affects his credit history, since I am presuming he doesnt have a pot to urinate in ?
     
  12. PM me his address and photo, if I live near I'll go and collect the money or goods to the value.
     
  13. Thanks JudgeDread..

    As you quite rightly said, Mrs Dave has bought the debt from Junior because (in a rash moment :)) she gave him the money owed by the miscreant and therefore the debt became Mrs D's.

    He IS working and when we sent amended the papers to his work address they were returned to Northampton because the papers cannot be served at a works address. We didn't know we couldn't serve on a works address until we phoned for a progress report. We even highlighted the fact on the Claim Form that the address was a works address but the Court still returned the amended form to us for service at that address. Someone slipped up there!!

    However, we found out this weekend that we can get an attachment of earnings raised against him, which means Northampton Count Court (Online Cases only) will transfer the case to the local court whereupon judgement will have to be passed again. If Mrs D wins, it will be passed to the local bailiffs (who we know personally, one being ex-Forces with me).

    I know that the chances of success are about 40%, but I'm determined to teach the little scrote a lesson about honouring debts. He is a serial debtor and has done moonlight flits, owes others £100's and it's now a matter of principle - one way or another I will get paid.

    As said previously, thanks everyone for their very valued input....it's nice to know that there are some who still care about standards and honour.
     
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  15. Sorry to hear about your problem, but I can sympathise, as I too am going through the same process for a Drive way company called Distinctive Drives who work out of the Nottinghamshire area.
    I built a website for them, posted it, and asked for payment. The never did! So after a couple of letters and numerous phone calls, I filled out the Small Claims Court Online Claim. What a joke! They claim not to be at that address..which is the address they use to advertise. I have had the claim rejected now for what...I dont know. Will speak to the droogs down at Northampton on Monday to find out why. But as far as I am concerned, I have not had value for money, and hold the Court responsible for failing to carry out the service they charge for!
    I think option 2 may be on the cards....anyone up for a bit of masked action around the Notts area???? Food and drink provided after said deed done :)