Help needed WW1 Glosters?

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by dundrillin, Jul 24, 2010.

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  1. Being trying to sort out piles of photos from late Mother-in-Law and construct the family tree. Having a lot of trouble tying down William Marshall, who married a great-great Aunt. First picture definitely him (name on back), but am I correct in identifying chevrons on lower right sleeve as '4 years overseas service'? " 2nd picture was with the first and is titled ' Bayonet fighting, 10th Glosters at Cheltenham', which means this was taken some time between August 1914- April 1915. I think that the L.Cpl on the extreme left is also William Marshall.

    I've checked through 'Soldiers of Gloucestershire' database and cross-referenced with the Medal Rolls and none of the surviving William Marshalls were awarded the 1914/15 Star, which I'd suspect this William Marshall would have earned.

    Any suggestions from the pictures that I've made some incorrect deductions here, e.g. wrong uniform for Glosters etc?


  2. Not too sure on this and hope others will help, but they are Not Good Conduct Chevrons as far as I am aware but I think they are Wound Stripes.

    Good Conduct Chevrons (for each four year period of Service) were worn on the bottom Left Sleeve and were the same size as other chevrons (I refer to to the photographs of my Grandfather in the appropriate section). Wound stripes were smaller and of a different colour (Red I think). It looks very much that's what is illustrated on the photo of your Mother-in-Laws relative.

    10th Glosters would have been a Territorial or New Army Formation made up of Volunteers with little previous service. The Regular Battalions (1st and 2nd Glosters) would be more likely to display Good Conduct Chevrons as they would have served for longer generally.
  3. oldbaldy

    oldbaldy LE Moderator Good Egg (charities)
    1. Battlefield Tours

    There is a William Marshall who was Glosters but transferred to Machine Gun Corps awarded the 14-15 Star.
  4. Good conduct stripes were worn on the left sleeve and he would have had to have had far too many years service for his age to get four. Wound stripes were a bar (usually red, but no limit to number, with usually a gold bar to denote multiple woundings), running vertically up the sleeve an the bottom of the overseas service stripes.

    I'd seen the William Marshall who transferred to the MGC, but he's a private in the Glosters (1914 photo shows a Lance Jack and 1918 photo shows full screw, whereas medal roll for the tranferee one shows only Lance jack.)

    Anyone like to hazard a guess at the badge on the right epaulette?
  5. You're correct, they are overseas service stripes, which means the photo is from 1918 or later.
  6. My apologies dundrillin, they could well be overseas service badge(blue on khaki) for service after 1914. The Commonwealth Empire overseas service badge for 1914 for example was red but after 1914 was blue. Badges were awarded for one years service overseas.

    10th Glosters was a Kitchener New Army (Service) Battalion raised in Bristol during 1914 and billeted in Cheltenham between November 1914 to April 1915 when it returned back to Salisbury Plain. It moved to France in August 1915 and was Subordinated to 1st Brigade, 1st Division, a Regular Army formation. It remained in France until February 1918 when it was disbanded.

    There is a William H M Marshall, Regimental No 033148 listed under 10th Battalion at Soldiers of Gloucestershire as a Private

    I'm afraid my eyes are too weak to make out the badge on his epaulette, but if it is crossed Lewis Guns and Kings Crown, it could well be the Machine Gun Corps, which was later absorbed into the Royal Tank Corps after 1918.

    I suspect the photo on top was taken post 1918.
  7. Served 1914 - 1918, lucky bloke I would say.
  8. On page 29 of the book 'The British Tommy 1914-18' published by Osprey ISBN; 1 855325 541 1 is shown a photograph of a Territorial Private of the 5th Gloucesters (Formed in Gloucester), wearing the full shoulder tittle of T over 5 over GLOUCESTERS

    The badge on the right shoulder epaulette of the photograph shown above looks like a shorten version or possible MGC see page 56 of same publication which shows a L/CPL Jim Marshall MGC.
  9. Had already checked that guy out, but no 14/15 Star. I also found another, serial 1642, on enlistment papers, who enlisted in the 10th TA Battalion in Bristol in 1912, but again, no 14/15 star and discharged 9th August 1916 due to sickness. Perhaps a transfer to the MGC, or other unit may be the route to take? Can't check all William Marshalls as there are 940 of them- enough to start a William Marshall Battalion!

    Don't think this picture is any later than 1919, especially as I can place him in Hull in November 1918.

    My thanks to all who are helping though.
  10. I've scanned the photo again at the highest resolution the scanner will do. From the shape of them, I don't think these shoulder titles are Glosters or MGC. Any suggestions?

  11. Try ASC (Army Service Corps) as an alternative, but as I have already said, my eyes aren't too good.
  12. I would not get hung up on rank on medal records v rank worn as an identifying factor - lots of acting/temp ranks in WW1.

    Have you actually contacted the Glosters Museum/Soldiers of Cloucester/whatever? I know that there a couple of researchers who have done a great deal of work on soldiers from Cheltenham and one of them has done a great deal of work on MGC in general - the museum probably has some of the fruits of their work.
  13. Apart from two photos, I have no information about him. I've just ordered his marriage certificate, which ought to give me a bit more to go on, such as age, father's name etc. May even have his unit, as he was married in 1914. When that arrives I've got a bit more to search with.