Help ID a weapon please!

B

bokkatankie

Guest
Must admit that this one has me stumped, photo is of Border Regt. TA, about 1914, any idea what the weapon is?

Scout Scar rifle range  early  un uniformed   volunteers.jpg
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
My thought was Hotchkiss, but does not look right, especially the bipod, also why would a TA unit of Border Regiment have it?

This is what was with photo:

"Pre uniform" Kendal volunteers on Scout Scar firing range above the town . Maybe 8th Bn volunteers ( but there was an 11th Lonsdale company from Kendal) rather than 4th territorials though? I think territorials would have had uniforms?
 
The French offered the Hotchkiss in all manner of configurations: indeed, if you look closely, the strip clip is apparent to the right of the gun breech on the weapon in the foreground.

The Hotchkiss was originally designed for use with a tripod-an SF gun, in today's nomenclature. But the armies of the major powers were anxious to have some form of automatic weapon that could move with assaulting troops. And what you have in the photo is an attempt to reconcile that with the technology of the day.

None were very successful, particularly the French Chauchat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat or 'Shosho', as the Americans called it.

The whole concept never really went anywhere until the US introduced the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle
 
The French offered the Hotchkiss in all manner of configurations: indeed, if you look closely, the strip clip is apparent to the right of the gun breech on the weapon in the foreground.

The Hotchkiss was originally designed for use with a tripod-an SF gun, in today's nomenclature. But the armies of the major powers were anxious to have some form of automatic weapon that could move with assaulting troops. And what you have in the photo is an attempt to reconcile that with the technology of the day.

None were very successful, particularly the French Chauchat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauchat or 'Shosho', as the Americans called it.

The whole concept never really went anywhere until the US introduced the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle
What about the lewis gun? Wasnt that pre BAR?

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Lewis gun was an ugly looking spud:

Lewis 1914-28.jpg
 
Mle. 1909 Hotchkiss "Portative", also known as the Benet-Mercie, and M1909 Machine Rifle by the US.

One of the odd things you notice is the very well made monopod for the Buttstock and the ******* spindly bipod legs for some reason. In US use a lanyard was run from the legs to the trigger guard to keep the bipod from collapsing while firing. in US service had a very bad rep as the "Daylight Gun" during the Pancho Villa raid on Columbus New Mexico. One was found in a NJ lake in the 90's by some kids, it was in 6mm Navy chambering and now on display at the USS Intrepid.
 
What about the lewis gun? Wasnt that pre BAR?

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Indeed it was, but with limited success: again, it was found to be unwieldy for use during a rapid advance and the drum magazine was prone to damage. Having said that, it provided good service as a crew-served defensive weapon in the trenches and in the air.

As I said, the whole concept never went anywhere with other than a limited success until the BAR hove into view: perversely, the original BAR was not fitted with a bipod and was seen more as a 'trench broom' during the late stages of the war.
 

pongo6863

RIP
RIP
Not to mention on RFC aircraft, notably the SE5.
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
You do wonder how many pilots died as they attempted to stand in the cockpit changing the drum mag. Not really an act of war.
 

pongo6863

RIP
RIP
Often. At least there was the slide on the SE5.
Can you imagine standing up in say, a B.E.2? You must have been a target from the groin up and vulnerable from the toes up!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
There was a light infantry single layer drum for the light lewis but lmg teams were rarely less than 3 men often 4!
The BAR wasn't the catch all it should have been but at approx. 18 pounds was almost 10 pounds lighter than the light lewis and 20 lighter than the MG08 (15) (? not sure of correct designation!) You can thank BSA for ensuring the Belgian licensed Lewis Gun made it into service using Belgian refugees from the contractor that was to build the Lewis in Belgium!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Remember then you couild buy a machine gun as a civilian so the
Must admit that this one has me stumped, photo is of Border Regt. TA, about 1914, any idea what the weapon is?

View attachment 178130
Don't forget that up until 1922 any civilian could buy a machine gun and ammo so local dignitaries raising a Bn of troops could buy it enough weapons to train with until the war office took responsibility for the troops. This has been documented before and in a Rifleman went to War Herbert MacBride records being given 2 colt potato diggers for his CEF Bn before finishing training in Canada!
 
You do wonder how many pilots died as they attempted to stand in the cockpit changing the drum mag. Not really an act of war.
I thought the Foster mount allowed for changing drums in flight by sliding the gun down the rail?

FosterMountandLewisGunSE5aHisso_zps810e91bb.jpg
 
@ugly MG08/15 was a modified version of the '08: lightened and fitted with a shoulder stock.
A acquaintance has found a MG08/18 in decent condition in an attic, apparently great grandpa brought it back from France in 1919. Unfortunately cannot be registered
 
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