Hellenic Armed Forces

#1
#5
I understand that the Swiss had contacted the greeks to see if they were ready to sell some of their fixed wing aircrafts (in place of buying the Grippen), the Greeks apparently got ticked off by the suggestion to sell out their best aircraft with Turkey looming next door waiting to attack (if only)... While no details were released, the only aircrafts of interest to the Swiss would have been the F16, but have you seen the amount of aircraft, UNBELIEVABLE:


156 x F16 Falcons
39 x Mirage 2000
57 x F4's
51 x LTV A-7 Corsair II

Total of 308 combat aircraft! Never mind the passing brown envelopes during the procurement process, imagine just the fuel- and repair bill for that feet!
 
#8
I understand that the Swiss had contacted the greeks to see if they were ready to sell some of their fixed wing aircrafts (in place of buying the Grippen), the Greeks apparently got ticked off by the suggestion to sell out their best aircraft with Turkey looming next door waiting to attack (if only)... While no details were released, the only aircrafts of interest to the Swiss would have been the F16, but have you seen the amount of aircraft, UNBELIEVABLE:




156 x F16 Falcons
39 x Mirage 2000
57 x F4's
51 x LTV A-7 Corsair II

Total of 308 combat aircraft! Never mind the passing brown envelopes during the procurement process, imagine just the fuel- and repair bill for that feet!
It does sound impressive until you realise what the Turks have or are about to have

240 odd F-16s
50 F-4s upgraded by Israel (the arms trade to irony too!)
Soon 100 F-35s

Add to the above they conduct the most extensive mock air combat training with NATO outside of Red Flag twice a year called Anatolian Eagle and they will have 4 of the latest AWACS and a host of KC-135 tankers to keep all of the above constantly in the air, then the Greeks suddenly do not look so well armed....
 

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
SNIP
Under austerity you would think the inventory numbers would be lower and conscription would be unaffordable?
SNIP

Conscription is a lot cheaper than professionalism. Last time I looked, the UK had the world's third largest defense budget. We have an army of - what? 100,000 chaps?

I live in South Korea. I don't think they are even top 10 in defense spending, but they have an army of - what? 650,000 chaps?

The secret? Pay your inducted grunts 10 quid a month.

Speaking of Korea: Glad to see the Turks shouldering Garands and wearing greatcoats...this is the kit they wore in 1950.

When the Chinese stormed into North Korea and shattered the UN Command, 27th Commonwealth Brigade was the only formation holding the line; the Middlesex Regt deployed to hold open the lower pass at Kunu-ri while the Chinese were massacring the US 2nd Infantry Division six miles up the valley: That was the worst disaster to befall US Army in modern times. Meanwhile, grim little bands of Turks - whose brigade had been decimated to the northeast - came through the British lines.

The Middlesex Regiment blokes - who were the only UN troops advancing toward the enemy and who were, themselves, soon being overrun - still remember those Turks. They had lost a quarter of their strength in their first, traumatic action in Korea, but as men, they were undefeated: All had bayonets fixed to their rifles, and many of them were carrying their dead strapped across their backs.

Tough fellow, Mehmet.
 
#12
SNIP
Under austerity you would think the inventory numbers would be lower and conscription would be unaffordable?
SNIP

Conscription is a lot cheaper than professionalism. Last time I looked, the UK had the world's third largest defense budget. We have an army of - what? 100,000 chaps?

I live in South Korea. I don't think they are even top 10 in defense spending, but they have an army of - what? 650,000 chaps?

The secret? Pay your inducted grunts 10 quid a month.

Speaking of Korea: Glad to see the Turks shouldering Garands and wearing greatcoats...this is the kit they wore in 1950.

When the Chinese stormed into North Korea and shattered the UN Command, 27th Commonwealth Brigade was the only formation holding the line; the Middlesex Regt deployed to hold open the lower pass at Kunu-ri while the Chinese were massacring the US 2nd Infantry Division six miles up the valley: That was the worst disaster to befall US Army in modern times. Meanwhile, grim little bands of Turks - whose brigade had been decimated to the northeast - came through the British lines.

The Middlesex Regiment blokes - who were the only UN troops advancing toward the enemy and who were, themselves, soon being overrun - still remember those Turks. They had lost a quarter of their strength in their first, traumatic action in Korea, but as men, they were undefeated: All had bayonets fixed to their rifles, and many of them were carrying their dead strapped across their backs.

Tough fellow, Mehmet.
Have you mentioned who pays the conscripts? Their true cost surely is a hell lot more than 10 quid while serving, assuming they remain employed. Conscripts usually remain on their employer's payroll during service (though this may differ from country to country) and are usually reimbursed to a degree by the government. IF that were the case, the money simply comes out of a different coffer, the overall cost (-all inclusive) cost is probably about the same. Don't forget that conscripts are not a substitute for professional soldiers (especially if the banter of TA vs regular on this site is to be taken as a yardstick).

Bottom line is Greece is broke and it has one of the biggest military arsenals of any western european (and NATO member) country. We all know if it came down to it the Greeks wouldn't be able to stand up to the Turks, but then as NATO members, they wouldn't have to. So why don't they stop pretending and start selling?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#13
Bottom line is Greece is broke and it has one of the biggest military arsenals of any western european (and NATO member) country. We all know if it came down to it the Greeks wouldn't be able to stand up to the Turks, but then as NATO members, they wouldn't have to. So why don't they stop pretending and start selling?
What he said...
 

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
SNIP
Have you mentioned who pays the conscripts? Their true cost surely is a hell lot more than 10 quid while serving, assuming they remain employed. Conscripts usually remain on their employer's payroll during service (though this may differ from country to country) and are usually reimbursed to a degree by the government.
SNIP

As you say..."may differ from country to country."

It does. Out here, conscription falls on those who have just finished school or uni and so are not in full time employment. No reimbursement required, the government gets cheap squaddies and loads of them.

As for the Greeks selling hardware:
Would this actually make any dent in their deficit? Moreover, given that Greece is (as noted) part of NATO, do you not think that their units (and so weaponry) are not slotted into the alliance's orbat?
 
#15
SNIP
Have you mentioned who pays the conscripts? Their true cost surely is a hell lot more than 10 quid while serving, assuming they remain employed. Conscripts usually remain on their employer's payroll during service (though this may differ from country to country) and are usually reimbursed to a degree by the government.
SNIP

As you say..."may differ from country to country."

It does. Out here, conscription falls on those who have just finished school or uni and so are not in full time employment. No reimbursement required, the government gets cheap squaddies and loads of them.

As for the Greeks selling hardware:
Would this actually make any dent in their deficit? Moreover, given that Greece is (as noted) part of NATO, do you not think that their units (and so weaponry) are not slotted into the alliance's orbat?
They never seem to contribute much to outside area ops (happy to be corrected on this one)
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#16
As for the Greeks selling hardware:
Would this actually make any dent in their deficit? Moreover, given that Greece is (as noted) part of NATO, do you not think that their units (and so weaponry) are not slotted into the alliance's orbat?
It's not so much the selling of the hardware, more the cost of keeping and maintaining it.
Having had the misfortune to work with their "military", I can categorically say that they are thoroughily shit and would be a liability to NATO anyway....
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Other things to consider - the Greeks don't have a long history of democracy (in modern times) but they do have a well established tradition of military dictatorship and civil war. Start selling off the defence of the nation and the defenders may start thinking they could run the country better. I bet a triumvirate of colonels telling the EU to stick their Euro where the sun doesn't shine might be popular with the Greek electorate at the moment.
 
#19
I am starting to doubt these figures. They spend 4.3% of their GDP (2010) on defense https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gr.html but their standing army size is indicated at about 88,000 (Hellenic Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). What are they going to do with all this kit with less than 90,000 men? The Airforce is another 33,000 men strong (the arsenal there makes at least more sense in light of the size of their air force) Hellenic Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), but still? The Navy is another 30,000 men (Hellenic Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) strong and I am beginning to see a pattern emerging. These guys are armed to their teeth! Let's not forget there is a population of less than 11 Mio, does all of this stack up? Have they actually enough boots to use all this gear?

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