Helicopter Shortage in Afghanistan " An Option "

#1
With a shortage of British support Helo"s in the Stan and a recent overdue decision to bring up to the current standard 8 Chinooks that have been in storage for a few years, should we look a little further a field.

Would it not be an idea to purchase and upgrade US stocks of ex - US ARMY Chinooks that are in storage in Nevada ?

Get Some of these other NATO countries that "WILL NOT" supply ground troops to pay for the upgrades atleast !
 
#2
There are huge efforts being put in to logistic support in Afghanistan, please do not think that people are not trying to solve the problem they are but it takes time and trying to get he other NATO countries who do not see fit to risk their troops on the ground to help out with rotary wing support is like trying to herd cats.
 
#3
You have missed the point. If the British Government were pressured enough to get them. They'd do just that, then deal with the cost afterwards.
Like all governments they have money for emergencys. Just whereas to us the death of one Brit soldier is an emergency to them its the first of many they can afford before they have to do something to save face.

Fact of the matter is those at number 10 are quite happy for those on tour to walk or drive.
 
#4
06FA56Paderborn said:
There are huge efforts being put in to logistic support in Afghanistan, please do not think that people are not trying to solve the problem they are but it takes time and trying to get he other NATO countries who do not see fit to risk their troops on the ground to help out with rotary wing support is like trying to herd cats.
Bollix. Utter. Complete. Unashamed. Tripe. Please go and shoot yourself immediately. Or at least stop trying to post your pathetic propoganda on arrse.
 
#5
I like the idea of billing the countries who wont supply troops for ground work.

Send a bill to France for 1 x BG + log/sigs/med/engr/arty/air support.
 
#6
duffdike said:
06FA56Paderborn said:
There are huge efforts being put in to logistic support in Afghanistan, please do not think that people are not trying to solve the problem they are but it takes time and trying to get he other NATO countries who do not see fit to risk their troops on the ground to help out with rotary wing support is like trying to herd cats.
Bollix. Utter. Complete. Unashamed. Tripe. Please go and shoot yourself immediately. Or at least stop trying to post your pathetic propoganda on arrse.
Duffdike,

I am one of those putting huge amounts of effort into logistics in Afghanistan. I am sorry you do not appear to understand or appreciate my efforts - would you please now go and shoot yourself immediately. Or at least stop trying to post your uninformed abuse on ARRSE.
 
#8
I'm hearing rumours that the boys prefer to call US Blackhawk medevac helis over RAF Chinooks, cos the RAF ( with understandable justification) won't risk the aircraft, whereas the Yanks are prepared to take a risk to get our casualties out.

Not sure if this is a cultural thing or truely down to the lack of aircraft in theatre.
 
#9
Hootch said:
I'm hearing rumours that the boys prefer to call US Blackhawk medevac helis over RAF Chinooks, cos the RAF ( with understandable justification) won't risk the aircraft, whereas the Yanks are prepared to take a risk to get our casualties out.

Not sure if this is a cultural thing or truely down to the lack of aircraft in theatre.
Nothing at all to do with risk..its to do with the ease of evacuating a casualty. Blackhawks more suited to task and don't lick up half a ton of shi t when they come in
 
#10
An alternative to waiting an age for the DE&S (or whatever it's called this week) to buy new aircraft/convert old ones is to look to the commercial marketplace and hire the things. Commercially chartered aircraft can be used to good effect in many logistic applications (eg delivering low risk stores), thereby freeing up RAF asset capacity to do more robust avn tasks futher forward in the battle area (eg moving combat troops, casevac etc). As a friend of mine who recently worked in DSCOM once said 'if it's practically feasible and you're prepared to take some risk (eg pay for it), it will happen'.

As illustrated recently by UK NSC(Afghanistan):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=504256&in_page_id=1770

However, we haven't always been so keen:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/18/nwar118.xml

as it risks a negative response like this:

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/ViewArticle.aspx?articleid=2818758

So, the moral to this story might be: Do something that you need to do but is presentationally tricky (eg hiring civvi hellies when your own fleet is failing) off the back of something that you know the press cannot fail to support (eg Christmas welfare for the troops).

Clever. We're getting better at this modern soldiering lark, are we not?
 
#11
Hootch said:
I'm hearing rumours that the boys prefer to call US Blackhawk medevac helis over RAF Chinooks, cos the RAF ( with understandable justification) won't risk the aircraft, whereas the Yanks are prepared to take a risk to get our casualties out.

Not sure if this is a cultural thing or truely down to the lack of aircraft in theatre.
That i can tell you is utter bollocks, FACT.
Before anybody says it, i'm not RAF. Army aviators have a new found respect for those boys, just check how many of their crews have got DFC's for flying their cabs into a shit storm.
 
#12
HOOTCH,
that is utter BOLLOX mate, I think you will find the story is the other way round. The Yanks prioritise their wounded differant to the British. If the US have walking wounded or none life threat, they are Priority more than a poor bugger that is touch n go.The way they look at it is that the walking / low cat wounded can be put back on operations faster.

Where did I find out this from ? A British Chinook Load Master Whose Chinook flew an All Arms Medical Crash Team around Helmand Supporting British/Allied troops.

These British Chinook crews put there lives on the line to get our wounded out !!!!!!!
 
#13
sixty_three said:
HOOTCH,
that is utter BOLLOX mate, I think you will find the story is the other way round. The Yanks prioritise their wounded differant to the British. If the US have walking wounded or none life threat, they are Priority more than a poor bugger that is touch n go.The way they look at it is that the walking / low cat wounded can be put back on operations faster.

Where did I find out this from ? A British Chinook Load Master Whose Chinook flew an All Arms Medical Crash Team around Helmand Supporting British/Allied troops.

These British Chinook crews put there lives on the line to get our wounded out !!!!!!!
And the recent TV documentary rather re-enforces that the RAF Chinook crews are doing a magnificent job supporting the troops.

Sh1t did I just praise the crabs. :oops:
 
#14
duffdike said:
06FA56Paderborn said:
There are huge efforts being put in to logistic support in Afghanistan, please do not think that people are not trying to solve the problem they are but it takes time and trying to get he other NATO countries who do not see fit to risk their troops on the ground to help out with rotary wing support is like trying to herd cats.
Bollix. Utter. Complete. Unashamed. Tripe. Please go and shoot yourself immediately. Or at least stop trying to post your pathetic propoganda on arrse.
You really havn't got a scooby have you? I have been involved in getting helos ready for ops since august, but im not saying what or when.
 
#15
yes go wash your mouth out with whiskey :twisted: it kills loads of germs :D
praising them even when deserved only fuels there egos like they need that :D
 
#16
To describe the shortage of helicopters in the Stan as a *logistics* problem scarcely does the subject any justice. The absence of helicopters in Afghanistan was a very serious mistake which is uncorrected five years later. Consequently our forces lack the tactical and operational mobility necessary in order to engage the enemy in an effective way. The courage and success of our forces in theatre is not in doubt. However the prospect of any meaningful victory at the tactical or strategic level is remote to put it at its lowest. To suggest in a masterpiece of New Labour spin that people are *working hard* is completely irrelevant, and does nothing to excuse or exonerate the current lamentable failures. The other NATO countries have got nothing to do with this. Brown needs to commit money immediately so that we are self sufficient. Going to meetings, sending memos, and pleading poverty is not *working hard*. It is disgraceful bureaucratic inertia. And the PBI as always are carrying the can.
 
#17
duffdike said:
To describe the shortage of helicopters in the Stan as a *logistics* problem scarcely does the subject any justice. The absence of helicopters in Afghanistan was a very serious mistake which is uncorrected five years later. Consequently our forces lack the tactical and operational mobility necessary in order to engage the enemy in an effective way. The courage and success of our forces in theatre is not in doubt. However the prospect of any meaningful victory at the tactical or strategic level is remote to put it at its lowest. To suggest in a masterpiece of New Labour spin that people are *working hard* is completely irrelevant, and does nothing to excuse or exonerate the current lamentable failures. The other NATO countries have got nothing to do with this. Brown needs to commit money immediately so that we are self sufficient. Going to meetings, sending memos, and pleading poverty is not *working hard*. It is disgraceful bureaucratic inertia. And the PBI as always are carrying the can.
Maybe if a certain NATO member hadn't said bollox you cant have them, try these totally useless bags of shite. Or another says yes but gives the highest hours and ones carrying snags then i could go with that comment. Then again if the others comitted a bit more we wouldn't be in such shite. :x
 
#18
The proper US medevac blackhawks are gleaming helos though, designed for that specific role like, although there aren't an abundance of them in theatre. I'm not surprised the US can't spare any as when they air assault, they do it properly, it is like apocalypse now, so many helos. Although, there are about half a dozen Dutch Super Puma's or whatever they are called at Kandahar, not sure how much use they get?
 
#19
307 said:
The proper US medevac blackhawks are gleaming helos though, designed for that specific role like, although there aren't an abundance of them in theatre. I'm not surprised the US can't spare any as when they air assault, they do it properly, it is like apocalypse now, so many helos. Although, there are about half a dozen Dutch Super Puma's or whatever they are called at Kandahar, not sure how much use they get?
There haven't been any Dutch Cougars in Afghanistan for months, 3 RNLAF Chinooks are stationed at KAF.
 
#20
drain_sniffer said:
Hootch said:
I'm hearing rumours that the boys prefer to call US Blackhawk medevac helis over RAF Chinooks, cos the RAF ( with understandable justification) won't risk the aircraft, whereas the Yanks are prepared to take a risk to get our casualties out.

Not sure if this is a cultural thing or truely down to the lack of aircraft in theatre.
Nothing at all to do with risk..its to do with the ease of evacuating a casualty. Blackhawks more suited to task and don't lick up half a ton of shi t when they come in
In my recent time there I can't recall a single instance of a wounded Brit soldier in Helmand being brought to the hospital in Bastion in anything other than a Chinook.
 

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