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Heavy fighting erupts over separatist Nagorno-Karabakh (Armenia Vs Azerbaijan)

That depends how far back you want to go. The area they are fighting in at the moment used to have a mixed Azeri and Armenian population. In the 1920's Azeri pogroms drove the Armenians out. In the 1990's the Armenians drove the Azeris out. This new war now appears to have driven the Armenians who were living there out. The only place in the whole area that has continuously had a majority of one ethnic group is Nagorno-Karabakh itself, which has always been majority Armenian.

no one, not no one, sides with the Armenians BS claims, everyone from the UN SC downwards sides with the Azeris.

Armenias fantasy of a 100% ethnically ‘pure’ Greater Armenia is being destroyed before its eyes.
 

Interesting bit of kit.
There seems to be a number of versions but one is used against a DJI type drone in this footage.


ETA Just found these robot(?) tripods to be used with the sight. Not much use against the majority of stuff seen recently. Maybe against the Kargu?


 
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earth calling legs!

why should the Azeris compromise with an invader who destroyed hundreds of their towns avd villages and drove out nearly a million of the inhabitants To create a ’security zone’ around an unrecognised enclave?
You may have to recognise that (I assume) many of us are not heavily invested in one side or the other here. We don't need to be converted, respectfully.
 
Exactly, and if the Azeris weren't prepared to compromise before the war and were preparing to take the land by force, how were the Armenians meant to make a compromise with them?

So you know the Azeries are preparing to take back their land by force but all you do is sit there and deploy your squaddies like cannon fodder? Sounds logical.
 
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4(T)

LE
Why the f*ck are they still bunching up like that?
These remind me of that feeling you get when you watch a crappy Hollywood war movie and see cheap effects and stuntmen depicting multiple squaddies being blown to hell.

Shocking. Their leaders ought to be put on trial.




Some of the footage dates back to day#1 though. Who knows whats happening on the ground right now?

Maybe there has been some tactical adaption; maybe the Azeris have burnt through most of their drone stockpile by now.
 
earth calling legs!

why should the Azeris compromise with an invader who destroyed hundreds of their towns avd villages and drove out nearly a million of the inhabitants To create a ’security zone’ around an unrecognised enclave?

Try taking your blinkers off for five minutes. Both sides have been ethnically cleansing areas for 200 years. The 91-94 war started because Azerbaijan drove out almost their entire Armenian population when the population of NK voted to become part of Armenia.

no one, not no one, sides with the Armenians BS claims, everyone from the UN SC downwards sides with the Azeris.

Armenias fantasy of a 100% ethnically ‘pure’ Greater Armenia is being destroyed before its eyes.


Not recognising NK as a separate State is not the same thing as accepting that the majority of the people in NK have always seen themselves as Armenian, not Azeri.
 
Some of the footage dates back to day#1 though. Who knows whats happening on the ground right now?

Maybe there has been some tactical adaption; maybe the Azeris have burnt through most of their drone stockpile by now.

How do you know about the dates? I don't recognize any of the footage on these two vids which were released a few hours ago
 
Some of the footage dates back to day#1 though. Who knows whats happening on the ground right now?

Maybe there has been some tactical adaption; maybe the Azeris have burnt through most of their drone stockpile by now.

I wonder how many strikes aren't "instagram worthy".
 

4(T)

LE
So you know the Azeries are preparing to take back their land by force but all you do is wait and deploy your squaddies as helpless cannon fodder? Sounds logical.


I'm pretty sure most armies in the world would have been caught unprepared by the first real example of saturation drone combat. I wonder how many NATO armies could take the field tomorrow morning with mass deployment of drone/anti-drone tech? I bet most of us would feel fairly squiffy deploying against an enemy fielding this concentration of loitering assets.
 
So you know the Azeries are preparing to take back their land by force but all you do is wait and deploy your squaddies as helpless cannon fodder? Sounds logical.

What else were they going to do? There wasn't a deal to be done to resolve it, they don't have the money to get into an arms race with a country as rich as Azerbaijan and they haven't been able to get any kind of international support.
 
I'm pretty sure most armies in the world would have been caught unprepared by the first real example of saturation drone combat. I wonder how many NATO armies could take the field tomorrow morning with mass deployment of drone/anti-drone tech? I bet most of us would feel fairly squiffy deploying against an enemy fielding this concentration of loitering assets.
Have a proper funded trained and equipped airforce?
 
You may have to recognise that (I assume) many of us are not heavily invested in one side or the other here. We don't need to be converted, respectfully.

I dont buy in to the Armenians PR campaign.
they whine endlessly about the Ottomans, then create an ethnically cleansed occupied territory even the Eichmann would marvel at for single minded - totally depopulating and utterly destroying 8,000km2 of someone else’s country - ruthlessness..

They’ve worked really hard at this fall, even the one friend they had, Russia, are pretty fed up with them - serves them right, they were offered a reasonable deal in 1993 and refused point blank to budge, not one millimetre, even with Russia pushing.

And now?

Pashinyan is going to go down in history as the man who destroyed Armenia, not a Türk.
his utter intransigence and fantasy of a ‘Greater Armenia’ - did he really think bussing in tens of thousands of Syrian ethnic Armenians to populate occupied Azeri lands wouldn’t inflame things? - after this disaster, the emigration from Armenia and Nagorno Karabach, always a far too steady flow, will turn into a torrent causing Armenia’s population to collapse.

Meanwhile, Turkey and Israel are the big winners.
 
What else were they going to do? There wasn't a deal to be done to resolve it, they don't have the money to get into an arms race with a country as rich as Azerbaijan and they haven't been able to get any kind of international support.


top tip, When you are a poor snot nosed kid with no friends, don't steal the rich neighbours car and thrown stones at him when he asks for it back.

Armenia : pop 3 million, piss poor, no friends, and spends all its money on turning its occupied territory into an armed camp.

Azerbaijan : pop 10 million, rich as an Arab oil state, big friends, Turkey and Israel, buys all the coolest robot war toys from its mates to settle the argument.
 
I dont buy in to the Armenians PR campaign.
they whine endlessly about the Ottomans, then create an ethnically cleansed occupied territory even the Eichmann would marvel at for single minded - totally depopulating and utterly destroying 8,000km2 of someone else’s country - ruthlessness..

They’ve worked really hard at this fall, even the one friend they had, Russia, are pretty fed up with them - serves them right, they were offered a reasonable deal in 1993 and refused point blank to budge, not one millimetre, even with Russia pushing.

And now?

Pashinyan is going to go down in history as the man who destroyed Armenia, not a Türk.
his utter intransigence and fantasy of a ‘Greater Armenia’ - did he really think bussing in tens of thousands of Syrian ethnic Armenians to populate occupied Azeri lands wouldn’t inflame things? - after this disaster, the emigration from Armenia and Nagorno Karabach, always a far too steady flow, will turn into a torrent causing Armenia’s population to collapse.

Meanwhile, Turkey and Israel are the big winners.
I think we're familiar with those arguments. Being pro or anti-Armenian here, doesn't have any impact on the things we're discussing.
Can we mostly discuss what's going on, and not why?
 
I'm pretty sure most armies in the world would have been caught unprepared by the first real example of saturation drone combat. I wonder how many NATO armies could take the field tomorrow morning with mass deployment of drone/anti-drone tech? I bet most of us would feel fairly squiffy deploying against an enemy fielding this concentration of loitering assets.

I don't know whether this is "saturation drone combat" or simply an almost total failure of anti-drone defense capability (if there ever was one). The Turks already used drones against the Syrian army in Idlib, with devastating effect, so there is no excuse for not knowing about the threat. The Armenians give the impression that they just remained conventional, living in the past.
 
Try taking your blinkers off for five minutes. Both sides have been ethnically cleansing areas for 200 years. The 91-94 war started because Azerbaijan drove out almost their entire Armenian population when the population of NK voted to become part of Armenia.

false.

Armenia has always claimed Nagorno Karabakh is ‘independent’, a claim ripped to sheds by the UN and international courts, ie, the ‘Artsakh Defence Army’ was found to be a de facto the regular Armenian army, reliant on Armenian Army conscripts and regulars for its manpower And operating fully as part of the Armenian Army.
Armenia was found to have de facto annexed by force sovereign Azerbaijan territory and called out in multiple UN resolutions
 
I'm pretty sure most armies in the world would have been caught unprepared by the first real example of saturation drone combat. I wonder how many NATO armies could take the field tomorrow morning with mass deployment of drone/anti-drone tech? I bet most of us would feel fairly squiffy deploying against an enemy fielding this concentration of loitering assets.

I imagine it would be painful and expensive but would it be the farrago we are being shown? Upthread I wondered "Would 'Conventional Air' actually be of much use in this case?". Specifically the interest of the Turks really raised the bar in contending for any sort of success in the air over the (very defined) battlespace. If Armenia had enough suitable assets to contend with the Turks and the Azeris in the air they might be able to attack the drone set up "upstream" rather than the 'drones in the air'. At the minute, the Azeris can launch (and recover) with impunity. Could that be maintained in the face of Apache or similar out hunting for them and the runways the larger drones rely on being JDAMed into gravel?
 
I imagine it would be painful and expensive but would it be the farrago we are being shown? Upthread I wondered "Would 'Conventional Air' actually be of much use in this case?". Specifically the interest of the Turks really raised the bar in contending for any sort of success in the air over the (very defined) battlespace. If Armenia had enough suitable assets to contend with the Turks and the Azeris in the air they might be able to attack the drone set up "upstream" rather than the 'drones in the air'. At the minute, the Azeris can launch (and recover) with impunity. Could that be maintained in the face of Apache or similar out hunting for them and the runways the larger drones rely on being JDAMed into gravel?
It is maybe a chicken and egg situation. Some videos have appeared which suggest Azerbaijan is now using fixed wing aircraft, after having cleared a lot of the Armenian SAM systems, using UAV. I assume the Azerbaijani SAM are intact plus they also have Erdogan's guarantee of help.
Armenia has some but not very many (4 I think) modern multi-role aircraft and also Su25.
This may be why Armenia is using SSM to hit Azerbaijan. Inaccurate but low risk compared to aircraft.
 
I think we're familiar with those arguments. Being pro or anti-Armenian here, doesn't have any impact on the things we're discussing.
Can we mostly discuss what's going on, and not why?

we can, the drones are fascinating, no ones laughing at Dominic Cummings now!

imagine a swarming drone attack on a carrier with cruise missiles that each deploy dozens of little kamikaze drones that attack all the sensors, aircraft and deck personnel.
 
It is maybe a chicken and egg situation. Some videos have appeared which suggest Azerbaijan is now using fixed wing aircraft, after having cleared a lot of the Armenian SAM systems, using UAV. I assume the Azerbaijani SAM are intact plus they also have Erdogan's guarantee of help.
Armenia has some but not very many (4 I think) modern multi-role aircraft and also Su25.

some of the recent attacks are clearly being carried out with large LGBs.
wether Azeri SU-25’s or Turkish F-16’s, that is the question.
 

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