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Heavy fighting erupts over separatist Nagorno-Karabakh (Armenia Vs Azerbaijan)

I s Turkey technically capable of achieving this?


Someone is claiming to be tracking military drones on a civilian website that I assume uses a transponder which can be switched off when and where they choose to track the flights?

Oh boy, and we wasted millions on an early warning system on Menwith Hill when all we really needed was the interweb.
 
Turkish Minister ramping up the temperature saying that Turkey and Azerbaijan are “...Two countries, one people...”
 
Someone is claiming to be tracking military drones on a civilian website that I assume uses a transponder which can be switched off when and where they choose to track the flights?

Oh boy, and we wasted millions on an early warning system on Menwith Hill when all we really needed was the interweb.

Well it was never intended to be an EWS but you'd be surprised what goes on. Some of the really dedicated watchers have an IDF intel background themselves and are able piece the things that are apparent, as well as things that aren't apparent, changes in patterns etc etc. Bizjet activities, destinations and cover destinations can reveal a lot about regional politics....
 
Well it was never intended to be an EWS but you'd be surprised what goes on. Some of the really dedicated watchers have an IDF intel background themselves and are able piece the things that are apparent, as well as things that aren't apparent, changes in patterns etc etc. Bizjet activities, destinations and cover destinations can reveal a lot about regional politics....

No doubt, there is a lot about hiding things in "plain" sight (no pun intended). Ive seen some of the American watchers noting when certain aircraft visit certain bases and they can derive a lot from it.
 
No doubt, there is a lot about hiding things in "plain" sight (no pun intended). Ive seen some of the American watchers noting when certain aircraft visit certain bases and they can derive a lot from it.

It has been said that some of the more dubious flights keep their transponders on as a form of protection, since nations shooting other nations' civilian/cargo planes down would constitute a radical escalation and expose the attacker to the same treatment. That's why some of these "trackers' are able to "see" and report flights from Iran delivering weapons to Syria / Hezbullah in real time. Then however, everyone in the know waits to see how the IAF will pounce on the delivered shipment.
 
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Militia from Syria being used elsewhere to further Turkish foreign policy? That will be an interesting development if it is true. Using troops recruited from one part of Turkey's sphere of influence to be used in another part of Turkey's sphere of influence would be a significant expansion of their capabilities.

There have been reports of Turkey shipping Syrian fighters to Libya in recent weeks, so if correct, this is just another application of that modus.


 
Why are they accepted in NATO? Considering it's supposed to be a peaceful, no aggressive organisation.
 
Why are they accepted in NATO? Considering it's supposed to be a peaceful, no aggressive organisation.
I suspect that Erdogan will bite off more than he can chew, then run crying to NATO.
Who will " consider" his pleas for a long, long, time without actually doing anything practical.
 
I suspect that Erdogan will bite off more than he can chew, then run crying to NATO.
Who will " consider" his pleas for a long, long, time without actually doing anything practical.
Armenia are claiming the F-16 took off from an Azerbaijani airfield, bombed Armenian positions 60KM inside Armenia, then shot their plane doen and killed the pilot.
Will Russia take the gloves off in Syria around Turkish positions?
 
Definitely a dead tank


You must find it quite conflicting when your 'tanks are dead' mantra is bulwarked by film of your favourite Russian equipment going up in flames.
 
I suspect that Erdogan will bite off more than he can chew, then run crying to NATO.
Who will " consider" his pleas for a long, long, time without actually doing anything practical.

Turkey is certainly talking up a wider fight.

'Turkey is ready to provide military support to Azerbaijan in the conflict with Armenia, said Foreign Minister Mevlut Chavushoglu, reports Anadolu news agency.

"Turkey is ready to support Azerbaijan both at the negotiating table and on the battlefield," said the Turkish Foreign Minister.

'Ankara sees the attack on Azerbaijan as an attack on Turkey, said Mehmet Mehdi Eker, deputy head of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP).

'The day before, Baku was supported by Turkish President Recep Erdogan, who said that it is necessary "to end Armenia's occupation of Azerbaijani lands."

"It's time to pay the bills. Otherwise, Armenia will continue to be self-willed. It must withdraw from the occupied lands. Everyone knows that these are the lands of Azerbaijan," he said, speaking in Istanbul.'


 
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Turkey denied it's F-16 was involved.


Did Turkey poo it's pants?
 
Am I being extremely cynical when I feel that this is the last of the old-fashioned 20th century wars dating back to the Balkan Wars that preceded WWI? Two Ruritanian countries backed by powerful regional allies fighting an old-fashioned conventional war in which conscripts, tanks and artillery blast at each other.

The only benefit being for the rest of the world being that it will be a moderately useful testing ground for new technology and we can finally decide whether main battle tanks, jet fighters and ranks of conventional artillery and all the other impedimenta of the 20th century have a place in modern defence thinking or whether they should follow battle ships and massed cavalry into the shadows of history.

Meanwhile there's always this to remind us we have been here before.

 

4(T)

LE
Am I being extremely cynical when I feel that this is the last of the old-fashioned 20th century wars dating back to the Balkan Wars that preceded WWI? Two Ruritanian countries backed by powerful regional allies fighting an old-fashioned conventional war in which conscripts, tanks and artillery blast at each other.

The only benefit being for the rest of the world being that it will be a moderately useful testing ground for new technology and we can finally decide whether main battle tanks, jet fighters and ranks of conventional artillery and all the other impedimenta of the 20th century have a place in modern defence thinking or whether they should follow battle ships and massed cavalry into the shadows of history.

Meanwhile there's always this to remind us we have been here before.


To be honest, it makes the Balkans look like the home counties. The Wiki article for Armenia gives a good idea of what a fragmented mess the whole region has been for centuries:


The historic movement of populations (including genocides, purges and soviet demographic tinkering) means that none of the population clusters really align with any historically-claimed borders. Azerbaijan's Nagorno-Karabakh region is populated by Armenians, which is why Armenia annexed it, whilst Azerbaijan itself owns a region of Armenian territory in Nakhichevan. Nakhichevan in turn has lost a bit back to Armenia called Karki.

With Turkey, Russia, Iran and about 50 regional splinter groups involved, its hard to see any future except endless conflict. Feck knows what Russia's policy is, as it has Armenia as a client state, but Putin also regards Azerbaijan (and the other 'stans) as an errant bit of Russia.

To avoid an infestation of "little green men", the 'stans have tried to boost their national self-identity by brushing up their Turkic heritage. However Turkey itself, whilst heavily invested in the region and a useful trading partner, hasn't made much impression on the deep soviet legacy that favours Russia.

To add to all this mess, the whole region is infected by the two big global cancers of extreme Islamism and malevolent Chinese expansionism.
 
More on the presence of TuAF F16s and, surprise, surprise, Russian aircraft.

'It has already become known that Turkey has sent four F16 fighter jets to Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan, to take part in air operations against the Armenians. The planes took part with other 10 F16s a few days ago in a joint exercise conducted by Turks and Azerbaijanis in Nakhichevan, another pro-Turkish Muslim country located on Armenia’s western border.

'According to sources, the losses for the Azeris continue to accumulate, which is unusual because of the military equipment at their disposal. Experts say that in this case, the losses may be dictated by inexperience among Azerbaijani soldiers.

'As we reported earlier today, Armenia is sending Russian S-300 systems to repel Azerbaijani and Turkish airstrikes on Nagorno-Karabakh. According to sources, the Armenian military has previously managed to shoot down two Turkish attacking drones Bayraktar.

'Russia has also sent air reinforcements to Armenia, and according to unconfirmed information, we are talking about unmarked and without distinctive Russian MiG-29 fighters.'


 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
There was a twitter video of three Mig29s in Armenia the other day... Though as always could have been fake.
 

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