Heavy fighting erupts over separatist Nagorno-Karabakh (Armenia Vs Azerbaijan)

[Red Hander]

Harop, Son of Harpy, is a very deadly bit of kit, properly cutting edge.
when a Isreal tried to sell upgraded Harpy’s to China, it caused a very serious spat with Tel Aviv when the USN pointed out to the .Gov the latest version of Hary was quite capable of taking out an Arleigh Burkes radars.
The Russian kits good, but Israel has the best SEAD kit on the planet.

and what we are seeing over Syria, Libya and now Azerbaijan over the last years has been the fast paced development of all out wars pushing drones from interesting ideas, to mainstream war winning weaponry.

The Turkish deployment of its new Kargu mini hunter killer AI/facial recognition swarming quadcopter drone is very significant - that’s the one in the footage that spots a guy stand up, and chases and kills him - we are now entering Slaughterbot territory.

and yes, one of the design objectives of these new generation Turkish AI drones is to hunt down known PKK leaders.

I'm not keen on the guy's presentation style, but he made his point. For someone of my age (late 40s) this is heading into Sci-Fi territory, but we're seeing it become a reality.

 

[Slime]

It's very interesting as some of us have in the past accepted accounts of Russian equipment being good, and have even excused poor performance on the grounds of, for example, the equipment being an export version; inadequate operator training, etc, with the implication that the version used by Russia itself would be better.
That approach is increasingly hard to defend.
I don't know that Western equipment would do better in the context of fighting in NK, but Russian ground-based air defence is looking obsolete -when faced with UAV.
Edit - I am not suggesting that all Russian equipment is poor. I am more reflecting on past willingness to make excuses for Russian kit when it hasn't performed.

It is also interesting to see vids of Spike destroying Russian kit. Not for the sake of goriness, but because the UK has had Spike for some time, and we are seeing real world tests that aren't exposing UK forces to any danger.

 

[Red Hander]

It is also interesting to see vids of Spike destroying Russian kit. Not for the sake of goriness, but because the UK has had Spike for some time, and we are seeing real world tests that aren't exposing UK forces to any danger.

Thanks for the info. I have just read up on it. I had little idea how capable it is, or how many have been sold.

 

[PhotEx]

Good points.
Some of the Armenian ground-based air defence systems like the Osa and Zsu 23-4 were designed before the modern version of UAV were in use. There is one report of an Armenian Pantsir being destroyed by a Azerbaijani UAV, and the Pantsir is marketed as being effective against UAV (although some sources have claimed the export version is less capable, and lacks the radar network needed to be effective).
It would be interesting to hear the views of any Arrsers re. why Armenia is finding it hard to counter the UAV.

Edit - interesting link btw.

Azerbaijan, aka Turkey, appear to be following the Israeli SEAD model with a full spectrum of specialist drones.

Send in an expendable drone to draw fire, things like a remote controlled old AN-2 to attract the interest of say an S-300, EW drones detect, fix and blind targets, then a killer drone pops a missile in it.

Armenia?

They are flying a small number of first generation drones, little more than model airplanes with a basic camera.

All a bit British Army vs African armies - doesn't matter how brave you are if the other guy has Maxim guns and you're still using bows.



Now you may well ask why Turkey, but especially Israel, is sending. its very best Game of Drones toys to Azerbaijan?

Politics dear chap, politics, while the Turks don't love Armenians and has strong ethnic relationships with northern Iran, the bigger game is with Israel…
a friendly to Israel nation on Irans norther borders massively compromises Irans strategic security.
And while Iran and Azerbaijan maintain nominally cordial relations, Iran has its own issues with its ethnic Azeris in its East and West Azerbaijan provinces

In the finest traditions of the region - the friend of my enemy, is my friend




Armenian drones

 

[Escape-from-PPRuNe]

I wonder where BTRs 661S, 663S, and 666S got to?

 

[4(T)]

yes, it’s been doing the rounds on the blogs with a large dose of cynicism at this ‘capture’.
no location, no signs of an ‘ambush’, no bodies, just 7 BTRs parked along a road with plenty of space to do a 180 and and drive back out an ‘ambush’, with the cameraman totally cool about walking casually up a ‘contested‘ road on a brilliant sunny day when the Azeris have total air dominance.

Looks entirely plausible from a military eye, though.

This is a convoy of troop carriers, empty less for the junior muzhiks assigned to drive them. Probably gone up the wrong road and bumped into some opposition. Not an ambush as such, just a typical oops as happens so often in war.

Packet leader has evidently blatted off his one box of ammo in the lead vehicle (the cases in the road), then been slotted or put his hands up. Vehicles seem undamaged, so the rest of the drivers evidently chose discretion over valour.

One driver has in fact whacked his wagon into reverse and gunned it, only to come off the road and crunch into the hill. That alone indicates this was some sort of contact.

Blokes at the rear probably didn't have a scooby what was going on, until someone tapped their window with a rifle and told then to get out.

Azeri drone operators probably just see a friendly callsign stopped somewhere close to their own forces. Fog or war, etc.

 

[PhotEx]

Looks entirely plausible from a military eye, though.

This is a convoy of troop carriers, empty less for the junior muzhiks assigned to drive them. Probably gone up the wrong road and bumped into some opposition. Not an ambush as such, just a typical oops as happens so often in war.

Packet leader has evidently blatted off his one box of ammo in the lead vehicle (the cases in the road), then been slotted or put his hands up. Vehicles seem undamaged, so the rest of the drivers evidently chose discretion over valour.

One driver has in fact whacked his wagon into reverse and gunned it, only to come off the road and crunch into the hill. That alone indicates this was some sort of contact.

Blokes at the rear probably didn't have a scooby what was going on, until someone tapped their window with a rifle and told then to get out.

Azeri drone operators probably just see a friendly callsign stopped somewhere close to their own forces. Fog or war, etc.

which sounds a far more plausible scenario - both sides have very large numbers of jumpy conscripts.
there a video out there of a T-72 that’s been back and forwards three times, abandoned, captured, abandoned again, captured......



meanwhile, the Turks have turned to at Gabala airbase in Azerbaijan

Turkish F-16 may be used in case of external aggression against Azerbaijan — Aliyev

According to the head of state, there are "about five to six" Turkish F-16 jets in Azerbaijan

tass.com

 

[SkippedOnce]

Interesting Russian claims.

'Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

'The “Krasukha” is a Russian-made broadband multifunctional jamming system, dubbed “Belladonna” in English, which Russia is operating out of its military base in Gyumri, Armenia, the Hong Kong-based news website said. The base is near the Turkish border and about 487 kilometres from the nearest major Azeri base in Ganja, it said.

'The system was designed primarily to protect areas in and around Russia’s military bases where its powerful transmitter can blank out airborne radars, although it has also been found useful in counteracting armed drones, the Asia Times said.

'The Krakushka was used successfully in defending Russia’s Hmeimim air base in Syria from swarming drones, it said. Those drones, also known as ‘lingering munitions’ or ‘suicide drones’, are designed to overwhelm air defence systems and crash into a target, setting off armed explosives in the process.

'Russian news media said that at least nine Bayraktar drones were shot down on or around Oct. 19, according to the Asia Times. It said neither the Russian, Azeri nor Turkish governments have made a statement on the issue.'

Russia shoots down at least nine Turkish drones over Armenia - report | Ahval

Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

ahvalnews.com

 

[loofkar]

Interesting Russian claims.

'Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

'The “Krasukha” is a Russian-made broadband multifunctional jamming system, dubbed “Belladonna” in English, which Russia is operating out of its military base in Gyumri, Armenia, the Hong Kong-based news website said. The base is near the Turkish border and about 487 kilometres from the nearest major Azeri base in Ganja, it said.

'The system was designed primarily to protect areas in and around Russia’s military bases where its powerful transmitter can blank out airborne radars, although it has also been found useful in counteracting armed drones, the Asia Times said.

'The Krakushka was used successfully in defending Russia’s Hmeimim air base in Syria from swarming drones, it said. Those drones, also known as ‘lingering munitions’ or ‘suicide drones’, are designed to overwhelm air defence systems and crash into a target, setting off armed explosives in the process.

'Russian news media said that at least nine Bayraktar drones were shot down on or around Oct. 19, according to the Asia Times. It said neither the Russian, Azeri nor Turkish governments have made a statement on the issue.'

Russia shoots down at least nine Turkish drones over Armenia - report | Ahval

Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

ahvalnews.com

Looks like the next step will be to make drones perform autonomously, Allah preserve us...

 

[Red Hander]

Looks like the next step will be to make drones perform autonomously, Allah preserve us...

And, one would imagine, counter UAV, UAV. Perhaps small 'hunter' drones with a proximity fuse to ko other drones? Certainly an EW-based response too.

 

[LEGZ30]

Interesting Russian claims.

'Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

'The “Krasukha” is a Russian-made broadband multifunctional jamming system, dubbed “Belladonna” in English, which Russia is operating out of its military base in Gyumri, Armenia, the Hong Kong-based news website said. The base is near the Turkish border and about 487 kilometres from the nearest major Azeri base in Ganja, it said.

'The system was designed primarily to protect areas in and around Russia’s military bases where its powerful transmitter can blank out airborne radars, although it has also been found useful in counteracting armed drones, the Asia Times said.

'The Krakushka was used successfully in defending Russia’s Hmeimim air base in Syria from swarming drones, it said. Those drones, also known as ‘lingering munitions’ or ‘suicide drones’, are designed to overwhelm air defence systems and crash into a target, setting off armed explosives in the process.

'Russian news media said that at least nine Bayraktar drones were shot down on or around Oct. 19, according to the Asia Times. It said neither the Russian, Azeri nor Turkish governments have made a statement on the issue.'

Russia shoots down at least nine Turkish drones over Armenia - report | Ahval

Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

ahvalnews.com

That base is as far away from where the fighting is as you can get and still be in Armenia. Why would the drones be up there?

Edited to add - It would explain why the Armenians suddenly have all of these pictures of downed drones in the last week, if they are being brought down inside Armenia itself.

 

[lokiuk]

Looks like the next step will be to make drones perform autonomously, Allah preserve us...

And that's when you wind up the paranoid and tell them Skynet is real, and off they go to google it

 

[Civvy Scum]

And, one would imagine, counter UAV, UAV. Perhaps small 'hunter' drones with a proximity fuse to ko other drones? Certainly an EW-based response too.

No need for counter UAVs in the naval environment.

Those Mossad sharks fitted with laser beams will shoot down any UAVs over the sea.

 

[loofkar]

That base is as far away from where the fighting is as you can get and still be in Armenia. Why would the drones be up there?

Edited to add - It would explain why the Armenians suddenly have all of these pictures of downed drones in the last week, if they are being brought down inside Armenia itself.

pictures of downed drones? Are you sure? (better still, can you post them here?)

 

[CutLunchCommando]

The Turkish deployment of its new Kargu mini hunter killer AI/facial recognition swarming quadcopter drone is very significant - that’s the one in the footage that spots a guy stand up, and chases and kills him - we are now entering Slaughterbot territory.

I looked the Kargu up. As an aside the explosion looks less massive than in the IR footage.

https://www.stm.com.tr/en/kargu-autonomous-tactical-multi-rotor-attack-uav

 

[PhotEx]

Interesting Russian claims.

'Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

'The “Krasukha” is a Russian-made broadband multifunctional jamming system, dubbed “Belladonna” in English, which Russia is operating out of its military base in Gyumri, Armenia, the Hong Kong-based news website said. The base is near the Turkish border and about 487 kilometres from the nearest major Azeri base in Ganja, it said.

'The system was designed primarily to protect areas in and around Russia’s military bases where its powerful transmitter can blank out airborne radars, although it has also been found useful in counteracting armed drones, the Asia Times said.

'The Krakushka was used successfully in defending Russia’s Hmeimim air base in Syria from swarming drones, it said. Those drones, also known as ‘lingering munitions’ or ‘suicide drones’, are designed to overwhelm air defence systems and crash into a target, setting off armed explosives in the process.

'Russian news media said that at least nine Bayraktar drones were shot down on or around Oct. 19, according to the Asia Times. It said neither the Russian, Azeri nor Turkish governments have made a statement on the issue.'

Russia shoots down at least nine Turkish drones over Armenia - report | Ahval

Russia has deployed an electronic jamming system in Armenia that has downed at least nine Turkish-made Bayraktar TB-2 combat drones used by Azerbaijan in fighting over the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, the Asia Times reported on Monday, citing Russian news reports.

ahvalnews.com

Soooooo....
Turkey and Azerbaijan are sending their tactical Bayrakters off to get shot down in droves attempting to interdict this system, located at Gyumri, as far West and as far from the action as is physically possible as you can get in Armenia, but curiously, the Azeris don’t send one of their IAI Harops, or better still IAI Harpy’s, arguably the best autonomous anti radiation drone on the market, to annoy this Russian system.

 

[PhotEx]

I looked the Kargu up. As an aside the explosion looks less massive than in the IR footage.

https://www.stm.com.tr/en/kargu-autonomous-tactical-multi-rotor-attack-uav

3lb warhead comes in three flavours
Blast/Frag
Hollow charge
Thermobaric

 

[LEGZ30]

pictures of downed drones? Are you sure? (better still, can you post them here?)

There are about 5 videos or pictures I have seen of them downed. One at least is dodgy because it appears to be one that was shot down in Syria.

At least one is definitely gen because they were able to show all the components in it that had been bought from Western countries. Which is why a number of companies from NATO countries have now said they won't supply components to Turkey any more.

 

[loofkar]

Yes, at least one appears to be gen.

 

[LEGZ30]

Yes, at least one appears to be gen.

I would think the one surrounded by guys in Armenian uniforms is also gen.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ek8fheDX0AAsGGT?format=jpg&name=large