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Heavy fighting erupts over separatist Nagorno-Karabakh (Armenia Vs Azerbaijan)

The dramatic success of drones in this conflict has made me more or less forget the question of air superiority. Do the Armenians in NK have an airforce? Have they ever tried to attain air superiority or if not superiority, at least balance?
I suddenly realised I haven't seen a single photo or video of helicopters of either side and what are their air forces up to, if anything? (Never mind the AN2's used as UAV AD bait)

What I'm getting at is, if over 30 years the Armenians in NK have never even tried to achieve at least a balance of air power with the Azeris, their defeat in any real conflict in NK has pretty much been a foregone conclusion?

In the days when it was still a fairly poor country economically (before there was US support), it took Israel just 19 years, from independence in 1948, until six days in 1967, to build an air force from scratch which then destroyed the entire Egyptian air force and foiled the attacking air forces of Syria, Jordan and Iraq. The Armenians have had thirty years - have they just not bothered?

As far as I know the Armenian Air Force is small and largely made up of second hand Russian kit. I have no idea if the NKR have any aircraft of their own.

There have definitely been aircraft operating because both sides have claimed to have shot down fixed wing, helis and drones and I have seen some pictures of crash sites so it isn't all exaggerated claims.

Edited to add - My personal opinion based on the conversations I have had with Armenians over the years was that they knew they were never going to win an arms race with the Azeris. The Azerbaijan Defence Budget is bigger than Armenia's GDP. They have always relied on the defence pact with Russia to keep the Azeris out of Armenia proper and for NK on inflicting so many casualties during a break through of the mountain lines that the Azeris will quit.
 
Freaky if it's genuine

I wouldn't be surprised if it was genuine. The NKR have admitted to over 700 dead so far.

The big question is how many casualties are the Azeris taking? They haven't admitted to taking any military casualties so far but there are videos out there from the Armenians that would indicate their casualties are at least as high and quite possibly a lot higher. The NKR are claiming to have killed around 5,000 but that is likely to be a major exaggeration.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it was genuine. The NKR have admitted to over 700 dead so far.

The big question is how many casualties are the Azeris taking? They haven't admitted to taking any military casualties so far but there are videos out there from the Armenians that would indicate their casualties are at least as high and quite possibly a lot higher. The NKR are claiming to have killed around 5,000 but that is likely to be a major exaggeration.

Meanwhile, in the real world.....

 
Meanwhile, in the real world.....


The fact that you lap up every bit if Azeri propaganda you can find just shows how truly clueless you are.
 
The fact that you lap up every bit if Azeri propaganda you can find just shows how truly clueless you are.

I see, so the Iranian footage of Azeri troops reaching the far end of the occupied southern border was staged?
 
I see, so the Iranian footage of Azeri troops reaching the far end of the occupied southern border was staged?

I didn't say it was. But now they have taken the South, the hard bit starts.

Given that you haven't produced any Azeri casualty figures try this one. Why do you think the Azeris are hiding the number of casualties they are taking?
 
I didn't say it was. But now they have taken the South, the hard bit starts.

Given that you haven't produced any Azeri casualty figures try this one. Why do you think the Azeris are hiding the number of casualties they are taking?

ah, now you agree, well it’s hard not too when Iranian a TV is showing Azeri troops along the border, that theyve taken the south, that’s the south you were saying they were bogged down in and stalled attacking only a few days ago.
The hard fighting was breaking in through the hugely fortified in depth, they’ve had 25 years to do it, border region, it’s always a hard slog assaulting heights from the lowlands, now, they can concentrate on cutting the Lacin Corridor And it’s game over for the Armenians. expect To see significant movements West in the next few days as the reality finally sinks in in Stepanekert the owners are back And not happy with what the Armenians have been up to for 25 years - like removing every trace a million Azeris ever lived there.
 
Armenia are complaining again about Canadian kit being used in Turkish drones in the war in Nagoro-Karabakh. They displayed Canadian made "optical and target acquisition systems" recovered from a shot down Turkish drone.
Armenia claims it found Canadian tech on downed Turkish drone
Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan urged the international community today to follow Canada's example by suspending exports of military technology to Turkey — after his defence officials claimed they had found Canadian components on a downed Turkish drone.

Pashinyan made the call a day after Armenian defence officials displayed what they claimed are parts of a Turkish combat drone and its Canadian-made optical and target acquisition systems.

A spokesperson for the Armenian Ministry of Defence said the Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drone was shot down by Armenian air defence units during fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh on Monday evening.

Armenian defence officials said the surveillance and attack drone was equipped with a state-of-the-art camera and target acquisition system produced by L3 Harris WESCAM in Burlington, Ont.

The WESCAM CMX-15D system was manufactured in June, and installed in the Bayraktar TB2 in September. It was then operated for 31 hours before being lost.
The WESCAM CMX-15D system was manufactured in June of this year and installed on the downed Bayraktar TB2 in September, said Shushan Stepanyan, spokesperson for the Armenian Defence Ministry.

Analysis of data from the device — which allows drone operators to designate targets on the ground and guide missiles and bombs to them — showed that it had operated for a total of 31 hours, Stepanyan said.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Iranians defo seem happy to have the Azeris back......

I'd be really interested to know why you get off on this shit - was your Mum an Azeri or something?
 
As far as I know the Armenian Air Force is small and largely made up of second hand Russian kit. I have no idea if the NKR have any aircraft of their own.

There have definitely been aircraft operating because both sides have claimed to have shot down fixed wing, helis and drones and I have seen some pictures of crash sites so it isn't all exaggerated claims.

Edited to add - My personal opinion based on the conversations I have had with Armenians over the years was that they knew they were never going to win an arms race with the Azeris. The Azerbaijan Defence Budget is bigger than Armenia's GDP. They have always relied on the defence pact with Russia to keep the Azeris out of Armenia proper and for NK on inflicting so many casualties during a break through of the mountain lines that the Azeris will quit.

Seems just so...... shortsighted

The Swiss prepared so many redoubts on mountain passes.
I realise that most of the things we can't see but anyway, looking at a new Azeri video of them purportedly advancing on a hillside road inside newly captured territory - I was struck by the absence of booby traps - absolutely classic road for wreaking havoc - it really looked like a missed opportunity

 
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I'd be really interested to know why you get off on this shit - was your Mum an Azeri or something?

I think he’s just happy he can now show off more facets of his omniscience.

AD expert
UAV expert
Cluster munitions expert
Caucasus expert

There are no bounds...although I’m waiting to see how he’s going to reconcile his Azeri fanboi position with ‘Russia stronk’.

He really was wasted making tea for senior naval officers.
 
Iranians defo seem happy to have the Azeris back......

How do you know that based on the video? For all I know they could be saying, "The Azeri's are back? Those pikey cnuts? There goes the neighbourhood."
 
Seems just so...... shortsighted

The Swiss prepared so many redoubts on mountain passes.
I that most of the things we can't see but anyway, looking at a new Azeri video of them purportedly advancing on a hillside road inside newly captured territory - I was struck by the absence of booby traps - absolutely classic road for wreaking havoc - it really looked like a missed opportunity


you must remember, 80% of the troops in Nagorno Karabach are Armenian proper conscripts doing a hated 2 years long stint in a trench on a hill in the middle of nowhere.
Armenia has a shrinking population, in significant part to the constant emigration of the brighter young of Armenia to avoid military service.

25 years of that endless garrison duty and you get a very bored, very set in its ways occupation force.
 
I think he’s just happy he can now show off more facets of his omniscience.

AD expert
UAV expert
Cluster munitions expert
Caucasus expert

There are no bounds...although I’m waiting to see how he’s going to reconcile his Azeri fanboi position with ‘Russia stronk’.

He really was wasted making tea for senior naval officers.

Just seeing all the responses to him on this thread alone confirms to me that I did the right thing by putting him on ignore.
If everyone put him on ignore, this thread for one would look a lot more focussed.
 
How do you know that based on the video? For all I know they could be saying, "The Azeri's are back? Those pikey cnuts? There goes the neighbourhood."

Those Iranians are also ethnic Azeris and have centuries long cultural and family ties with the former Azeri occupants. All the Azeri towns along the border are ghost towns, there’s not a single Azeri left in occupied Azerbaijanian territory, the ones not killed fled to the rest of Azerbaijan or Iran. Unsurprisingly, the thought of their brothers and a vigorous cross trade coming back cheers the local Iranians up.
 
Just seeing all the responses to him on this thread alone confirms to me that I did the right thing by putting him on ignore.
If everyone put him on ignore, this thread for one would look a lot more focussed.

I do so love it when people throw ‘la la la, I cant hear you’ toddler tantrums, almost as funny as watching the triggered being obsessively triggered,
 
Those Iranians are also ethnic Azeris and have centuries long cultural and family ties with the former Azeri occupants. All the Azeri towns along the border are ghost towns, there’s not a single Azeri left in occupied Azerbaijanian territory, the ones not killed fled to the rest of Azerbaijan or Iran. Unsurprisingly, the thought of their brothers and a vigorous cross trade coming back cheers the local Iranians up.
How do you know the people interviewed were ethnic Azeris?
 
I do so love it when people throw ‘la la la, I cant hear you’ toddler tantrums, almost as funny as watching the triggered being obsessively triggered,

You can’t expect us mere mortals - you know, those oiks with actual qualifications and experience in the manifold subjects you pronounce on - to be able to quietly submit to your Jedi-like mastery of Google.
 

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