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Heavy fighting erupts over separatist Nagorno-Karabakh (Armenia Vs Azerbaijan)

Drones film what they attack. Artillery and Infantry generally don't.

The Armenians have actually released multiple videos of what their artillery and infantry are doing, but with the Azeris refusing to acknowledge that they are taking casualties at all none of really know what kind of effect it is having.





The you tube video of the debacle on the hillside road that you posted twice here is from 27 September. Indeed the Armenians were the first to publicise a range of videos showing kills by artillery, ATGM and mines.
Another thing you posted here is from 3rd October. Your post only serves to emphasize the stunning disparity in losses between the opposing forces.

Do the math....
current Population of Nagorno Karabakh: around 150,000
Population of Armenia: around 2,965,000
Population of Azerbaijan: around 9,981,457

What kind of government of a population of only three milion can afford to sacrifice its soldiers the way they're doing?
 
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The you tube video of the debacle on the hillside road that you posted twice here is from 27 September. Indeed the Armenians were the first to publicise a range of videos showing kills by artillery, ATGM and mines.
Another thing you posted here is from 3rd October. Your post only serves to emphasize the stunning disparity in losses between the opposing forces.

Do the math....
current Population of Nagorno Karabakh: around 150,000
Population of Armenia: around 2,965,000
Population of Azerbaijan: around 9,981,457

What kind of government of a population of only three milion can sacrifice its soldiers the way they're doing?

The kind that believes it is in a fight for survival.
 
Drones film what they attack. Artillery and Infantry generally don't.

The Armenians have actually released multiple videos of what their artillery and infantry are doing, but with the Azeris refusing to acknowledge that they are taking casualties at all none of really know what kind of effect it is having.





some footage from the early days when the Azeris were advancing against dug in for 25 year positions on the high ground....

oddly enough, once the Azeri and Turkish drones started massacring dug in but now revealed Armenian artillery, the footage dried up.
 
except it’s not in a ‘fight for it’s survival’.

All Azerbaijan wants, and the entire would agrees with them, it to get their occupied territory back.

That is definitely not how the Armenians and the people of NK see it. They believe that the Azeri aim is to wipe out all of the Armenian population of NK and now that Turkey is involved a lot of them are concerned about the possibility of Armenia being wiped out too.

Despite the fact that you are desperate not to acknowledge it the Azeris have previous for driving out Armenian populations.
 
The you tube video of the debacle on the hillside road that you posted twice here is from 27 September. Indeed the Armenians were the first to publicise a range of videos showing kills by artillery, ATGM and mines.
Another thing you posted here is from 3rd October. Your post only serves to emphasize the stunning disparity in losses between the opposing forces.

Do the math....
current Population of Nagorno Karabakh: around 150,000
Population of Armenia: around 2,965,000
Population of Azerbaijan: around 9,981,457

What kind of government of a population of only three milion can sacrifice its soldiers the way they're doing?

according to wiki

Armenian Army

45,850 (including 19,950 professional and 25,900 conscripts)[1]

at least 600 kia, and I suspect that’s a very conservative estimate, is a huge toll on such a small Army.
 
That is definitely not how the Armenians and the people of NK see it. They believe that the Azeri aim is to wipe out all of the Armenian population of NK and now that Turkey is involved a lot of them are concerned about the possibility of Armenia being wiped out too.

Despite the fact that you are desperate not to acknowledge it the Azeris have previous for driving out Armenian populations.

then they are a very stupid people.
 
then they are a very stupid people.

Or you have very little idea of what you are talking about. I know which I would put my money on...
 
Or you have very little idea of what you are talking about. I know which I would put my money on...

calm down dear, and enjoy watching the Turks playing game of drones

because that’s what’s happening, the insane Armenian government is sending its conscripts to die in a hopeless battle as nothing more than target practice for Turkish drone operators.
 
The kind that believes it is in a fight for survival.

This is an aspect of the Israeli psyche too, but the shadow of past trauma can cloud one's judgement when issue is not about the survival of Armenia, rather what will happen in NK.
I am well aware of how difficult this is for Armenians but they do have a viable state called Armenia.
Did someone really think they could just kick every Azeri out of NK and declare it a separate Armenian republic and everyone would live happily ever after?
Seems like clouded judgement to me.
 
This is an aspect of the Israeli psyche too, but the shadow of past trauma can cloud one's judgement when issue is not about the survival of Armenia, rather what will happen in NK.
I am well aware of how difficult this is for Armenians but they do have a viable state called Armenia.
Did someone really think they could just kick every Azeri out of NK and declare it a separate Armenian republic and everyone would live happily ever after?
Seems like clouded judgement to me.

It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!
 
It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!


The fact is they did coexist during most of the Soviet era so whether they are capable of coexisting has already been proven. It's up to their leaders to seek a way to achieve it and if you're not interested in doing that the only alternative is to ensure you have the upper hand militarily.
 
It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!

Most of us have only been paying attention to this since it kicked off, although I did briefly visit Azerbaijan for work in 2005. I certainly don’t know what was going on in either place in August or September.

I wonder, did either of them have a domestic issue at home that they needed to draw attention from? That often turns out to be the causus belli of an otherwise pointless war.
 

4(T)

LE
The fact is they did coexist during most of the Soviet era so whether they are capable of coexisting has already been proven. It's up to their leaders to seek a way to achieve it and if you're not interested in doing that the only alternative is to ensure you have the upper hand militarily.

Problem is, they co-existed under soviet rule with NK effectively self-ruling itself as an Armenian enclave. That was possible under the centralised rule from Moscow. The territorial allocation to Azerbaijan was typical of soviet tokensim.

Thus the issue of the self-identity of the majority population has always remained an open wound, and was exacerbated by the 70 year soviet interregnum.
 
It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!
Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine (both with deep roots in the UK 's history), and/or . . . FRY/Bosnia . . . for which (fortunately), I don't think we can be held responsible :( .
 
It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!

Are you sure there's nothing rational on either side?
4 UN resolutions say it's Azerbaijan
The Armenians there kicked out all the Azeries and even grabbed Azeri territory that isn't in NK.
The Armenians refuse to negotiate on a solution to the issue.
Bearing in mind these facts, what would be rational in your view?
 
It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!
The 1914-1923 genocide of 1.5 million Armenians, by Turkey, must also resonate within Armenia, now that Turkey has sided with Azerbaijan ?!
 
It's very clouded judgement. There is nothing rational in this war on either side. For both countries this is a medieval style holy war, which is why I am concerned about it. Both sides have the capacity to commit Rwanda levels of ethnic cleansing and mass murder if this continues to escalate.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that most Armenians see NK as something separate from Armenia. To them NK is a part of Armenia and has been for 2,000 years. The fact that the Soviets let Azerbaijan control it for 70 years doesn't change that for them.

To someone like me who doesn't have an emotional connection to this it looks like there is a simple and straight forward solution. Azerbaijan gives up its claim on NK, Armenia gives back all the bits of Azerbaijan they occupied in the 90s and both sides leave each other alone. I have yet to meet an Armenian or an Azeri that agreed with that, for both sides it is all or nothing. It's like a foreigner trying to propose a compromise solution for Northern Ireland's problems to someone from Northern Ireland or trying the same to an Israeli or Palestinian!

‘clouded’?

hmmmmm...... who could have thought bussing in many thousands of ethnic Armenians from Syria and resettling them in occupied Azeri territory might provoke a fierce response to such blatant ethnic modifying of occupied Azeri land that had been 100% ethnically cleansed of all Azeris by the Armenians in the 90’s.
 

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