Heathrow Runway 3 - another call for it to be built

#1
Grant Shapps signals support for a third runway at Heathrow - Telegraph

Up and coming poli Grant Shapps has signalled his support for a third runway - adjacent to the M4. News on HS2 (High Speed) has gone very quiet and was left out of the HLOS to boot. Greening who has done well for rail transport is mooted to be on the way out over her opposition. Boris J wants to build another London airport but out of the way and adjacent to HS1 - which would make it a great airport for rail links to France and Belgium.

Personal view is that the transport infrastructure around Heathrow is knackered, there is just not the capacity, however a new airport is needed for the financial well being of the UK, therefore go with Boris. Your views?
 
#2
I still don't know why they can't find a way of making (former RAF) Manston work as a 'proper' airport. If I recall it has one of the longest runways in Europe, is serviced by a brand new dual carriageway which links to the M2 and would bring a lot of investment to one of the deprived areas in the UK if not Europe - Thanet!

Plus only 30mins from where they were proposing this new airport!

IIRC one of the issues was noise meaning the planes had to 1st go north then go all around Kent rather than cut straight across the Channel meaning extra costs but surely it would be worth it?
 
#3
When the original consultation went on back in 2005 (ish) the short term solution was to build a 3rd runway at LHR to ease the current issues rather than see that as a long term solution.

Boris is absolutely right in that a proper, modern airport is needed for London, The current mess is a total farce. I'm based at LHR and it's a total shambles on a daily basis. LGW isn't much better and the mix of Luton and STN being thrown into the mix, just confuses the issues.

Air travel is essential to the economic well being of a nation, successive UK governments seem to not realise that and have treated it as a rich person's thing to be taxed into oblivion, when of course it isn't. It's a transport system like any other, it's just fashionable to have a pop at it.

Governments pour billions into a rail network which is still crumbling, but give sod all to air transport and so seem to do their best to frustrate the aviation industry in order to protect rail.

We're pretty good at aviation in the UK despite the best efforts of Government meddling, we could even be world leaders again if we were allowed.
 
#4
UK is decades behind the curve on updating aviation facilties (along with every other aspect of transport and economic policy), and the damage to the economy is apparent to anyone who now travels through European hubs. LHR and LGW should get extra runways as an immediate short-term fix, then perhaps the estuary airport contemplated as an addition. People complain about traffic congestion around LHR - but look at the utter shambles on the other side by the Dartford crossings. Hard to see an estuary airport being of any use unless it is provided with express bullet trains into central London, free/additional crossings over the Thames - and miles of motorway links.
 
#5
Hard to see an estuary airport being of any use unless it is provided with express bullet trains into central London, free/additional crossings over the Thames - and miles of motorway links.
Affordable bullet trains that is - not like the Heathrow Express rip off service. Manston could be do-able, but a brand new, purpose-built Harry Spankers airport in the thames estuary would be preferable - much like the chinks did with Chek Lap Kok. I cannot understand the noise argument re: Manston. Modern a/c engines are not noisy. I grew up on the flightpath of Ringway (as was) and those 707s, VC10s and DC8s really made the non-double glazed windows rattle. I still visit regularly and the noise is barely discernable.
 
#6
UK is decades behind the curve on updating aviation facilties (along with every other aspect of transport and economic policy), and the damage to the economy is apparent to anyone who now travels through European hubs. LHR and LGW should get extra runways as an immediate short-term fix, then perhaps the estuary airport contemplated as an addition. People complain about traffic congestion around LHR - but look at the utter shambles on the other side by the Dartford crossings. Hard to see an estuary airport being of any use unless it is provided with express bullet trains into central London, free/additional crossings over the Thames - and miles of motorway links.
I understood that the airport would link into High Speed 1 from St Pancras to Brussels and Paris...
 
#7
Affordable bullet trains that is - not like the Heathrow Express rip off service. Manston could be do-able, but a brand new, purpose-built Harry Spankers airport in the thames estuary would be preferable - much like the chinks did with Chek Lap Kok. I cannot understand the noise argument re: Manston. Modern a/c engines are not noisy. I grew up on the flightpath of Ringway (as was) and those 707s, VC10s and DC8s really made the non-double glazed windows rattle. I still visit regularly and the noise is barely discernable.
I would support the estuary airport, it might also bring about another tunnel link between Kent and Essex. Issue then is the M25.

To which I would say that this government must revisit the Channel and Tunnel and with the gauge widened HS1, ...encourage... all vehicles on to piggy back services now been mooted by the railway - go to Passau and watch the trucks being loaded for their journey through Austria ... and then drive on an Austrian motorway, vive la change.
 
#8
Manston is a spit and a fart from Ramsgate,where HS1 starts from,problem is NIMBY's,and perceived noise.

LHR is a spent idea,the estuary airport is a great idea,rail link wouldn't be that hard,but you're all forgetting the 'birdies',that stop of on the wetlands of North Kent,at the moment the 'tree huggers' are winning the argument.

What is needed,is a government to just make the desicion,and do it,and I expect if that's what we have to wait for,then not in my lifetime! ;-)
 
#9
I would support the estuary airport, it might also bring about another tunnel link between Kent and Essex. Issue then is the M25.

To which I would say that this government must revisit the Channel and Tunnel and with the gauge widened HS1, ...encourage... all vehicles on to piggy back services now been mooted by the railway - go to Passau and watch the trucks being loaded for their journey through Austria ... and then drive on an Austrian motorway, vive la change.

Used to be,the BR MotorRail depot,was behind Olympia,put your car on a flatbed there,drive it of in Inverness,not an bad idea,just needs the customers,I suppose with some kind of Cross Rail link,get the flats onto the HS line,then through the Tunnel,and away the other side,Europe's your oyster!
 
#10
I understood that the airport would link into High Speed 1 from St Pancras to Brussels and Paris...
Unless its a high-capacity train that departs every 15 minutes or so and heads directly to central London terminus (a la Gatwick Express), then the airport will just be perceived as time-consuming and remote by passengers.
 
#11
Unless its a high-capacity train that departs every 15 minutes or so and heads directly to central London terminus (a la Gatwick Express), then the airport will just be perceived as time-consuming and remote by passengers.
Hi 4T, those would be the Javelins that are already operating KENT Coast into St Pancras. However, making truly international and saving a shit load of money on extending High Speed 1 to Heathrow... just don't go there... would be an international service that calls say every hour and then goes to Lille, then Brussels or Paris... it could beat changing planes because it would take you to the centre of Brussels or Paris. We would become an international competitor to Schipol.
 
#12
What a load of shite. There's no issues at LHR. T2 being rebuilt, T3 is good as is T5. T4 no issues. I arrived through T1 last weekend. No problems or delays. Flew through during the Olympics and it was seamless. We just love to talk our facilities down. Worst delay going through immigration to departures? NYC at JFK T2. It was a cake and arse party.
 
#13
I agree, LHR isn't a bad airport, but the problem isn't the airside.

It's the whole shooting match. It's on the western side of London. Great for those going down the M3 or M4, but everyone else has to do the M25 shuffle. Which also gets the M3 traffic, and snarls the M4 up, even if you don't actually go on it. No problem, take the train. To Paddington. On the west again. Or take the tube. It's a full hour from LHR to King's X. Take a taxi. That'll be seventy quid, guv. Get a rental car. Well, perhaps not. The rental cars are nowhere near the terminals, and the bus that comes to get you from T4 will take you to T5 first. OK, I'll have a rest in the hotel. Well, there's only two onsite, and guess what? You can't get the rental car shuttle to take you there.

So yes, immigration & customs, no bother. Everything else is a tad lacking though.

I can't help thinking the person who designed it was Jewish...

View attachment 87660
Just build a third runway down the middle between the other two. Have to shift some buildings around though.
 
#14
What a load of shite. There's no issues at LHR. T2 being rebuilt, T3 is good as is T5. T4 no issues. I arrived through T1 last weekend. No problems or delays. Flew through during the Olympics and it was seamless. We just love to talk our facilities down. Worst delay going through immigration to departures? NYC at JFK T2. It was a cake and arse party.
Exactly what are you a guru of? It is not about the actual airport - well it is a little bit. It is the strain on the transport infrastructure. In your own time.
 
#15
Used to be,the BR MotorRail depot,was behind Olympia,put your car on a flatbed there,drive it of in Inverness,not an bad idea,just needs the customers,I suppose with some kind of Cross Rail link,get the flats onto the HS line,then through the Tunnel,and away the other side,Europe's your oyster!
There.s a question for Roger Ford of Modern Rail - can we motor rail from London or indeed even further afield? Is there a market?
 
#16
Exactly what are you a guru of? It is not about the actual airport - well it is a little bit. It is the strain on the transport infrastructure. In your own time.

I'm a guru of taking the shit out of cnuts like you.

Heathrow. Let's see. Heathrow Express that gets you to Paddington in 15 minutes. It's well served by the motorway network and it's also likewise by the Underground. It's surrounded by congestion because it's one of the busiest airports in the world. It generates congestion by definition. It's stupid to criticise it for being West of London. It's just too big to go in the centre so it has to be out on one of the compass points. It's close to the M 25 and M3, M4, M40, M1.

What do you expect from a massive transport hub? No ****ing traffic?
 
#17
I'm a guru of taking the shit out of cnuts like you.

Heathrow. Let's see. Heathrow Express that gets you to Paddington in 15 minutes. It's well served by the motorway network and it's also likewise by the Underground. It's surrounded by congestion because it's one of the busiest airports in the world. It generates congestion by definition. It's stupid to criticise it for being West of London. It's just too big to go in the centre so it has to be out on one of the compass points. It's close to the M 25 and M3, M4, M40, M1.

What do you expect from a massive transport hub? No ****ing traffic?
You keep giving do you not?
The City of London is where?

People cite the City of London and Docklands because?
Please remind me where they are?

And why do you feel the need to insult? You ok?
 
#18
You keep giving do you not?
The City of London is where?

People cite the City of London and Docklands because?
Please remind me where they are?

And why do you feel the need to insult? You ok?
The best (sort of in a major city) airport I've flown out of was LCY (apart from GRZ). I leave my house, get on the DLR and am there in 10mins. Security and check-in is another 10mins (if it's slow) and am on airside!

I think my last flight out of the UK will be from LCY on BA in an all biz class service to JFK. Saves a shit load of hassle on the other side for most people. Just feel like flying across the pond on a tiny 318 and getting cleared in SNN for customs. Gotta save up for it. :)
 
#19
Guru - I wasn't criticizing it for being West in particular, I was criticizing because it is badly placed for much of the country. M3, M4, M40, I grant you. M1's a bit of a stretch, and the Eastern and Southern sides are screwed.

London Airport doesn't want expanding, it wants replacing. Say Oxfordshire. Still in the West, but far enough out not to incur the native traffic of London. Give it it's own access motorway (say off the M40) and good, mainline rail line to London, Birmingham, Southampton and Bristol, and you've got a well placed airport. Where RAF Benson is would be ideal. Sod the locals, they live next to an airfield anyway.

My local airport is Atlanta, which is THE busiest airport, with double the numbers of aircraft movements, and about 30% more passengers than LHR. It doesn't have a mainline rail station, but it does have the equivalent of the tube, MARTA (Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta), and is served by three Interstates. It's used as a model for large airports, several others have used the same design. You can get to any of the terminals from any other by an automatic train system, like the one at Gatwick between N & S terminals, only much longer. Crucially important, it has 5 parallel runways.

If they built something like that in the Oxfordshire countryside, with a spur to the HS2 rail line, and M4 & M40 access, it would be fit for purpose. As it is, it is hemmed in on all sides, the M25 is a parking lot between 3 & 7pm, and getting to London is an expensive pain in the ass. Unless you want to go to Paddington.
Best burrito I ever had was in Atlanta airport.
Your plan for an airport in Oxon won't work. Too far from London.
 

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