Having a rant - topic just withdrawn

Re: Leaving do where senior Snco's showed disrespect for a leaving comrade (post just withdrawn)

I can add to that view and pehaps add some possible explanation as an 'always has been in the TA' soldier who has just re-joined.

First, I quite agree with your comments, the senior SNCO at your do should, in my view, have taken the offending gentlemen quietly outside and given them a stiff talking too. Sadly, this attitude is now more prevalent in society generally and is creeping its way into the army as a result. Some might argue that this is partially as a result of the softer more caring force that we are now being trained up as where mongs are no longer thick cnuts but; "people who learn at a different rate or in a different way" (a direct quote from my CSjt during our 'equality and diversity' lecture on re-joining)

For a recent experience of that attitude though, we only have ourselves to blame. At said weekend run by Brigade, I was speaking to a new recruit from my regiment (The Rifles) who was admiring all the other cap badges of the various regiments and corps attending the training weekend and asked me "why is our cap badge so boring?". It wasn't until this point that I realised that, to date, my unit has given me (and clearly no other unit has done likelwise) a talk on the regimental history of the merged regiments and any reason to feel proud of the badge under which we serve. Having updated him on a very brief history of the Bugle, riflemen and their place in British military history, he was clearly a great deal more proud of his badge than he had been a few minutes before.

When I returned to my unit I was informed that no regimental history lesson is now included during pre-Catterick training which seems to me a tremendous shame and an insult to thiose who have gone before us. I am looking at having words in the right ears to get this changed but I just hope that my unit is unique in this travesty; if not, it might explain why you experienced what you did. If the seniors don't care enough about the regimental history and pride, how the hell do they expect the new boys and girls coming through to take any pride? (Rant over) :x
Thanks for that, I pulled it myself as I re-read it and I sounded like a crying lady-girl, the comment was really at the state of society and was unfair that I blamed the TA for it. I think what pished me off more was these were senior ranks, if a tom was disrespectful I would educate the chap but when the individuals in question are Senior to yourself then that's the problem.

For those confused the original thread was about a new mess member who made a passionate speech about the regiment (a regiment he spent 22 yrs in as a regular) only to receive sarky comments (albeit under breath) and post incident comment how traditions etc have little place in the TA.

Also I pulled it as anyone who knows my unit might feel is was representative of the unit as a whole, which it is not, the issue with respects to the TA is down to the fact that many seniors have worn so many cap badges with postings, disbandment's and amalgamations its hard to figure out their allegiances. I am lucky that the Regiment I joined as a regular is the same as the one I joined in the TA
It's a well known truism that a squaddie isn't happy unless he's moaning! LOL We all need to let off steam about falling standards as well as trying to ensure that they do not slip any more. I think that its at this point I should make a pompous quote about for evil to prosper it only allows good men to stand idly by or something like that, but I won't.. Damn it, i just did. D'oh! :wink:


wellyhead said:
the issue with respects to the TA is down to the fact that many seniors have worn so many cap badges with postings, disbandment's and amalgamations its hard to figure out their allegiances.

I would hope it is to their local unit. Regulars just can't seem to get their heads around this.

I don't know whether ths fits in with the deleted topic (I didn't see it), but I'll comment on the issues that have been raised with regard to traditions. I'll keep it short as I don't have much time to spare and may expand on it later if it needs it and I can be bothered.

Traditions and history are substantially Regular things. It would be nice if the TA had something similar, but given that we're only 100 years old and units have been mangled so much in that time, any records that have ever existed will have been scattered and probably lost.

The TA has much to be proud of in it's relatively short life but I doubt that there are many units that have a simple ancestry - R Mons and HAC being among the few. The process of amalgamation, disbandment and change of role certainly haven't done the rest any favours.

As a case in point, my original TA unit, 1st Battalion, The Yorkshire Volunteers comprised, at the time of my joining, of five Coys, each (bar one) affiliated to a different Regular regiment. So B Coy was "sponsored" by The Green Howards, having been previously part of 4th/5th Bn The Green Howards. Obviously, the Drill Hall could never have accommodated an entire Battallion (or two), so the rest of 4th/5th must have been elsewhere. Where, I don't know. If anyone ever considered Regimental history, where would they start? At the formation of the Yorks Vols? Essentially, the history of the TA component of the regiments had been cast aside - at best being tucked away in a drawer of the museums of the Regular regiments with no antecedants clamouring for display space.

Since I left them? Detachments rebadged to other units and not one, but two amalgamations. These aren't conditions conducive to maintaining a Regimental History or maintenance of traditions.

It's my belief that this is why a TA soldier looks on the TA as a whole in the same way that a Regular soldier looks on his regiment. After all, why else have a "Just TA" forum on ARRSE? Our antecedants may have been wearing different cap badges to our own, but they're still part of our history. "One Army" doesn't appear to be helping the situation with its "look forward, not back" attitude - or is that just my impression?

The tables are about to turn, though. With the amalgamations of the Regular regiments, they'll also find that Regimental History will gradually die off and Regimental Museums will close. Consider the fate of The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. Reduced in size following WW2, amalgamated twice and now their museum is no more than one room in Doncaster Museum. Quite a fate for a regiment that fielded 13 battalions in WW1 and 9 in WW2.
Good points well made Putteesinmyhands but I think that the TA always has had this tradition it's just become more lost recently.

Certainly when I first joined in 86, it was rammed home, very early on, just how proud we should be to be part of the Light Infantry (as was) and had the histroy of the Ligh Infantry and our parent units DCLI etc taught to us. We were proud to be part of that history.

Sadly, today, that process seems to be dying out due to the 'Catterickisation' of the Army. Ie. You learn to be a soldier first and then join your regiment and then, and only then, (if at all) do soldiers receive a history lesson as far as I can judge.

It's my belief that if all soldiers (regular and TA) were given a good grounding in the history of their cap badge (not necessarily regiment, due to all the almagamations) right at the start of their basic training, then recruits would feel more involved early on, have a greater pride in what they are doing and, would give the training staff something to work with in fostering team sprit and healthy competition between recruits of the same or differing regiments? Thoughts on a post card please.

that's the responsibility of the sub unit, when I ran recruiting we made a point that in the very early stages of training they would have cap badge and sub unit history, this seems to drift away in continuation training as they have a remit on the basics (SAA, Drill, PT, etc)

But none of this helps of the core element of the senior staff have no to little affiliation with the cap badge, in our mess there is only one other member who wore the cap badge previous to the units formation. whenever I bring the subject up I get jeers and comments on how much better it all was in the 14th Blankshire Latrine Cleaning Regt. How can a unit instill pride at its most basic level when the hierarchy fail to feel the passion ?
Good on you for bringing it up and shame on them for acting like that! This sounds like a job for.... dah, dah, daaah.....RAZ-MAN perhaps???? :)
More Battlefield Studies appropriate to cap badge.
When I first joined up (regular, LI) I had a regimental history lesson within the first 4 weeks of my training, I was also given a small book on the LI's history and traditions.

Agree with the points made so far, in my current (TA) unit very few have a clue about the history of our capbadge and it's a shame as pride in your capbadge is something that everyone service both Regular and TA should have.


Sometimes traditions were passed on.

In the 80's 5(v)R.Anglian had numbered companys instead of letters.This was passed on from the Hertfordshire Regiment who had fought a rear guard action for the Guards in the first world war.Because of this they were given the distinction of having numbered companys,the same as the Guards.

No doubt it all changed when the 5th became part of the East of England Regt and reverted back to letters again.
If the later changed to 3(v)R.Anglian is using letters,then that tradition has been lost.
Fate has stepped in in my unit to solve my concerns....
Out for a PFT last night with most of the company (bounty hunters and recruits at the end of year 'must get my tests in for deadline' run) and ended up chatting to one of our AGC ssgt's whose partner is senior at our training depot. Discussed my concerns about lack of a cap badge history lesson for the rifle's recruits (left out the idea of the AGC though! LOL).

The idea was well recieved and is now being passed on to the recruit depot as well as our PSI. Watch this space!


There is already some lobbying within the Rifles TA regimenta rganisation for a "regimental history, culture, rules, ethos" powerpoint pack to be created for use at RTC's and TAC's. I'd be interested in knowing which depot (RTC?) your recruits go to?
I'm glad to hear that. :) The Brigade HQ is in Exeter. I don't want to any more away than that as the other info thats already up here will give away more than I feel comfortable doing; ie giving away where and who I am and personalities I might want to talk about!!!!! :wink:

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