Have you had problems with your civi employer?

#1
Have you had problems with your civi employer because you are/were in the TA? I’m doing some work for the MOD at the moment and it would be really useful to have a few examples - particularly any related to mobilisation.

If you think you might be able to help, could you please PM me and I can tell you more.

And before anyone says it – no, I’m not a journalist! This is a legit bit of work.

Thanks
 
#2
All sounds very mysterious...

I think you need to be rather careful if either quoting examples of "awkward" employers or stating conversely that employers are "supportive". My understanding is that very few mobilisations following the first few TELICs were actually "compulsory" compulsory mobilisations. Therefore all employers should be "supportive" as the brown envelope shouldn't have been sent if the employee had not already had a positive response from their employer. Any "awkward" employers would be ones who had either not been consulted (or consulted and the response ignored) by the employee.

If you are genuinely "doing some work for MOD" you should be able to get details of all compulsory compulsory mobilisations and identify a suitable questionnaire sample from them.

Something that may be of interest is that the Department of Work and Pensions - the people who run Jobcentre Plus which of course works in partnership with SaBRE to fill vacancies caused by mobilisation - and has actually received a SaBRE award for being a supportive employer, subsequently amended their own staff's terms and conditions of service to withdraw the automatic right of volunteer reservists to paid leave for annual camp.
 
#3
Nope. Mine is very understanding indeed.

But that could be to do with the fact I am my Civi employer! :D

And no this isn't just a bone response, it's honestly well recommended! If you can successfully combine running a business with the TA, you're on to a winner.
 
#4
To my eyes the big problem is that most problems are resolved without any real evidence being generated.

I'll illustrate what I mean using myself as an example - I worked for a massive UK defence firm with a very pro-reservist policy. However, on ringing round prior to returning it became very clear that I was a marked man at a local level, so I extended - which meant resigning - and used the time to find another job.

Now the only way I could have been certain it was mobilisation that caused the problem would have been to go back, get made redundant and then prove that the paperwork was made up. Is anyone going to be daft enough to do that when they don't have to ? Particularly when the Army/MoD offer no help whatsoever to anyone having troubles with their employer. Sorry, I forgot that SABRE will give you a leaflet.

Moral - Boardroom promises mean nothing to your line manager.

The next wrinkle which I have been fortunate enough to avoid is the fact that being in the TA is increasingly a career stopper (which is perfectly legal BTW). Some of my colleagues have been told promotion requires commitment, being in an organisation with a liability for one year away in three is not commitment, so no promotion for you. Did I mention it was legal ? Because it is.

Oh, and try finding an employer who gives you time off these days for camps. My current one does - but for my last interview with a defence firm they thought they were reservist friendly as they let me do what I liked in my holidays. Times have changed.

One last thing, there's a lot of anecdotes on this forum, you may wish to search for some.
 
#5
Never had time off other than annual holiday f]









Never had time off other than holiday allowance .Most help from employer was packet of lumocolours ordered through there stationery as couldnt find them anywhere else and I had offred to pay for them.
Eventually left as it was either ta or job ,but,was completly dislussioned
with job and so called profession and it was basically an excuse to walk away.
Only thing i miss is pay and easy access to med supplies :D











-
 
#6
I went for a Job interview yesterday with a local property firm. I told them that i was thinking about joining the TA and would this be a problem? nope they said sounds like fun and if he was younger he would of had a go as well!...


Oh and i got the job.
 
#7
Never had any problem with my work manager's, most are ex Forces and would join the TA if they where younger. If anything it has been a bonus to work.
 
#8
My employer (essentially an NHS Trust) is just about neutral. They are by no means encouraging, but I don't feel any animosity about it either.

For camp, I get an extra week's paid leave and can apply for a week's unpaid leave or take the second week out of my annual leave. Perhaps I'm ungrateful - I don't think that's very generous, but then I know it can be worse, and so it's not that bad either.

With respect to promotions, etc., I have yet to see.

FF.
 
#10
Well, that's why I don't grumble about my lot. I get an extra week's paid leave. This is not an insignificant "donation" by my employer, but it did come about in a nationally negotiated agreement regarding terms and conditions of service. Thus, my particular employer can't really take credit - all they are doing is keeping up their end of the deal.

No doubt when the deal was being negotiated, the trusts thought it was fair so we employees must have given something up in return...

Never mind. Could be worse.

FF.
 
#11
02FD32 said:
Here's a thought..

Why should civi employers give extra paid time off.?
No reason at all if they don't want to. However, if they don't and you need to take unpaid leave rather than simply use up annual leave, just be aware that the unpaid leave will generally not count towards towards your employers pension scheme. So if you serve for 26 years and take 2 weeks unpaid leave every year, by the time you retire you will either be 1 year of reckonable service (defined benefit schemes) or 1 year of employers and employees contributions (defined contribution schemes) short.
 
#13
Many thanks for the very useful PM's I've had so far. At the moment, I'm particularly interested in issues with big companies - either because the whole organisation is unsupportive or (it appears more likely) because boardroom intent isn't reflected in the actions of local managers.

Please PM me if you think you might be able to help with some examples.

Many thanks
 
#14
who_cares.... said:
02FD32 said:
Here's a thought..

Why should civi employers give extra paid time off.?
No reason at all if they don't want to. However, if they don't and you need to take unpaid leave rather than simply use up annual leave, just be aware that the unpaid leave will generally not count towards towards your employers pension scheme. So if you serve for 26 years and take 2 weeks unpaid leave every year, by the time you retire you will either be 1 year of reckonable service (defined benefit schemes) or 1 year of employers and employees contributions (defined contribution schemes) short.
Very good point - Is it reasonable to suggest that UK PLC is in some respects being requested to "prop up" the MOD in this respect?

Would people leave the TA if they had no choice, but to use annual leave to allow their' military commitments?

On the flip side - would more employers be truly positive about reserve service if the government were to make tax concessions to reservist employers?
 
#15
ABrighter2006 said:
On the flip side - would more employers be truly positive about reserve service if the government were to make tax concessions to reservist employers?
I believe so yes, as then the perception that employers lose out by having reservist employees can be changed. It need only be something simple like a reduced rate of employers NIC's payable on reservists' wages.
 
#16
02FD32 said:
Here's a thought..

Why should civi employers give extra paid time off.?
Because members of the reserve forces are performing a task which is of public benefit. Employers give paid time off for pro bono work, trade union activities, pregnancy, jury service. Reserve forces activity belongs in the same category.

ABrighter2006 said:
Very good point - Is it reasonable to suggest that UK PLC is in some respects being requested to "prop up" the MOD in this respect?
Yes, just as they prop up the Ministry for Justice, the Departments of Trade and Industry, Health and Social Security and the Treasury. Should the MoD be a poor relation?

ABrighter2006 said:
Would people leave the TA if they had no choice, but to use annual leave to allow their military commitments?
Some would. Others (like me) would change job!

ABrighter2006 said:
On the flip side - would more employers be truly positive about reserve service if the government were to make tax concessions to reservist employers?
I have no doubt that it would. It might make only a marginal difference to the grand statements of intent made by company bosses.

But if managers in the middle ranks could see actual financial benefit to the figures for which they are responsible and gain credit, they'd undoubtedly do more to facilitate membership of the reserve forces.

Managers at that level have an incredibly narrow field of vision. They have an exaggerated fear of anything that might reduce their otherwise limitless call on people's commitment. If that can be assuaged by the prospect of better end-of-year figures and appraisal, it's bound to make things easier for the TA member. (Until the TA bod decides to pack in the TA: imagine having to take into account your boss's negative reaction to that ...)
 
#17
Fair comments Dr E, but I don't quite follow the propping up of Ministry for Justice, the Departments of Trade and Industry, Health and Social Security and the Treasury comment. With the exception of paying taxes that fund these units, they don't exactly take away staff from an employer and therefore affect the bottom line in the same way.

Employers are not expected to contribute when a member of staff is called for jury service in any financial form, whereas the employee can claim for loss of earnings from HM Court Service.

This does not compare with a reservist being paid by his company whilst being paid in his reserve role. What would be interesting if the top up rules that apply on mobilisation applied to a reservist's annual training commitment, ie. the employee is unpaid by his employer for 2 weeks additional leave, and the MOD made up the difference in salary to rank for the training period. Stands by for incoming!
 
#18
Well my Modern matrons attitude if forcing me out of the TA. To get spefic weekends off to train I cannot put them in as a request for my days off to fall on the saurday/sunday and have an early shift on the friday I now have to ask for a training weekend as 3 days annual leave!
Requests for earlies on my drill night become lates or night duty. and her attitude is a request is a request and reserve forces training isn't a priority! despite what trust policy says about supporting employees in reserve forces.
 
#19
I am self employed and the TA knows they are in third place.

msr
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
Dr_Evil said:
02FD32 said:
Here's a thought..

Why should civi employers give extra paid time off.?
Because members of the reserve forces are performing a task which is of public benefit. Employers give paid time off for pro bono work, trade union activities, pregnancy, jury service. Reserve forces activity belongs in the same category.
With all due respect mate, whilst the Evil Corporation may run a Voluntary Sector friendly policy I have never actually heard of a business that gave paid time off for Trade Union activities (a nod of admiration to the Affiliated Henchmen's Union for having bargained such a deal :wink: ), jury service or Pro Bono work (unless by legal requirement) that wasn't taken as part of a the employees leave entitlement.
 

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