Have the armed forces guards ever opened fire on UK soil?

I believe that after the issuing of CROMWELL (codeword for invasion imminent) in August 1940 there were a number of live-fire blue on blue incidents - vehicles approaching Home Guard checkpoints fired upon or hitting landmines, bridges blown up, polish troops detained at checkpoints and given a kicking, church bells being rung, phantom paratrooper sightings all over the place.
 
To add, my pedantry results from sharing an ops room with a staunchly loyalist green finch who reacted vociferously screaming ‘you are in the UK’ to anyone from my English county regiment who are ever used the phrase ‘back in the UK’ or similar. After a while we realised that the best response was ‘well, for now...’
 
Oswestry, 1974? Pissed up locals, nowhere near water, took potshots at squads drilling on the square. Regimental police opened fire, wounding three(?) and killing one. The local coroner accepted that they were wildfowling.
One injured according to Hansard:

HC Deb 10 June 1975 vol 893 cc140-1W
Mr. Biffen
asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will now make a statement on the shooting incident at Park Hall Camp, Oswestry, indicating if he is satisfied that all security procedures were complied with and showing what disciplinary action was taken subsequent to the incident.
Mr. Robert C. Brown
I have received the report of the Army board of inquiry which was set up to establish the facts of the incident in which, on the evening of 9th September last year, a member of a civilian duck shooting party was shot and injured by soldiers guarding Park Hall Camp, Oswestry. The conclusion of the board, which I fully accept, is that the incident arose from a genuine misunderstanding and that at the time the soldiers concerned fully thought themselves under armed attack. I have already written to the hon. Member outlining the findings of the board.
The police carried out their own investigations and the Director of Public Prosecutions directed that no criminal proceedings should be instituted. I am satisfied that all the security procedures in force were complied with, and in all the circumstances no disciplinary action has been taken against any of the military personnel involved in the incident. I have, however, accepted that in the light of this incident a number of measures are to be taken to reduce even further the risks of any recurrence of a similar misunderstanding. Claims for compensation have been received from solicitors acting for the three duck shooters, and these are being dealt with.
 
2 Para in Tern Hill IIRC.
In about 1989 . The PIRA sleeper cell had been posing as agricultural students at , ( ISTR ) Seal Hayne agricultural college . Cue the whole of special branch and various dog sections pouring all over the place finding all sorts of illicit but non terror related stuff , apparently from stolen motorcycles and cars , marijuana and illicit hooch .
 
In about 1989 . The PIRA sleeper cell had been posing as agricultural students at , ( ISTR ) Seal Hayne agricultural college . Cue the whole of special branch and various dog sections pouring all over the place finding all sorts of illicit but non terror related stuff , apparently from stolen motorcycles and cars , marijuana and illicit hooch .
Harper Adams College (now uni)
 
Marham, early 90s? Idiot worked in Handbrake House (aka SHQ).
west raynham 90ish, the guy on stag know the guy by name (he lived next door,) and did not see any issues, the SI snowdrop heard about it and our lad got 14 days, iiirc a few weeks into the high alert state a list of charges was posted including a rock enjoying a few nips from a hip flask and a plonker who took his mag of 20 home off camp
 
Slightly off-topic but there were a couple of instances in the '60s/70s where the sanctioned use of firearms against criminals caught most of the UK public unawares.

In 1972, the public perception was that police revolvers were kept under lock and key in the local police station, to be issued in time of emergency.
All this changed when a bank was attacked in Kensington (London) by armed robbers.
It was their extreme ill-luck that PC Slimon , looking like any other beat bobby was walking along the High Street to take up his post at one of the embassies. He was armed for that task but his weapon was concealed under his tunic.
The story is that a member of the public ran up to the PC saying that there was a robbery in the bank and the raiders had guns.
PC Slimon went in, issued a challenge and a gun battle ensued. It ended with the PC and a customer being wounded and two of the robbers also wounded, one mortally.
PC Slimon was awarded a George Medal.

The second incident happened a decade earlier.
In pre-Securicor days, banks used to transfer cash guarded by their own security staff. Looking back now it's strange to think that they were armed* and of course, the public at the time were unaware.
Anyway, in the East End of London, raiders armed with imitation weapons attacked a Glynn, Mills bank vehicle and as it was reported, the robbers got quite a surprise to find that the security man was armed and opened fire which resulted in one of their number being wounded. At that point the several raiders called off the attempt and fled

*armed robberies on banks and payroll robberies were more common in those days, those that didn't have guns usually had some form of cudgel.
 

Stumpy4154

LE
Book Reviewer
Bollocks, we swapped it for Brexit. Either Gibraltar or NI

Gib please if it's either/or.


97% British in Gib. Plus there's monkeys and an airport not named after an alcoholic wife beater.
[/QUOTE]
And the weathers better.
 
Yep me too at SEME, that was 1985, and we were issued 5 rounds a piece, there were at least 100 of us on duty at any given time. Spent about 3 weeks on a Alert, disrupted training, leave, everything
We had the same thing at 8 Sigs, but frankly, fcuk training. It'd be a poor result if the barracks came under attack and training was continued, but the regiment took casualties. Especially when you've got a couple hundred NCOs on upgrading courses and a thousand or so NIGs. Could have quadrupled the guard and still had enough blokes to have an 8hr shift pattern. In fact, IIRC, we also reinforced 11 Sigs Guard too, because that was the Phase 1 regiment, and they didn't have enough trained blokes and NCOs.

How times change!
 
Slightly off-topic but there were a couple of instances in the '60s/70s where the sanctioned use of firearms against criminals caught most of the UK public unawares.

In 1972, the public perception was that police revolvers were kept under lock and key in the local police station, to be issued in time of emergency.
All this changed when a bank was attacked in Kensington (London) by armed robbers.
It was their extreme ill-luck that PC Slimon , looking like any other beat bobby was walking along the High Street to take up his post at one of the embassies. He was armed for that task but his weapon was concealed under his tunic.
The story is that a member of the public ran up to the PC saying that there was a robbery in the bank and the raiders had guns.
PC Slimon went in, issued a challenge and a gun battle ensued. It ended with the PC and a customer being wounded and two of the robbers also wounded, one mortally.
PC Slimon was awarded a George Medal.

The second incident happened a decade earlier.
In pre-Securicor days, banks used to transfer cash guarded by their own security staff. Looking back now it's strange to think that they were armed* and of course, the public at the time were unaware.
Anyway, in the East End of London, raiders armed with imitation weapons attacked a Glynn, Mills bank vehicle and as it was reported, the robbers got quite a surprise to find that the security man was armed and opened fire which resulted in one of their number being wounded. At that point the several raiders called off the attempt and fled

*armed robberies on banks and payroll robberies were more common in those days, those that didn't have guns usually had some form of cudgel.
I'd like more information on that. I've never heard of civilians, i.e. non police or military, being armed in the UK to fulfill their employment, since the end of WW2. Their RoE would be interesting.
 
We had the same thing at 8 Sigs, but frankly, fcuk training. It'd be a poor result if the barracks came under attack and training was continued, but the regiment took casualties. Especially when you've got a couple hundred NCOs on upgrading courses and a thousand or so NIGs. Could have quadrupled the guard and still had enough blokes to have an 8hr shift pattern. In fact, IIRC, we also reinforced 11 Sigs Guard too, because that was the Phase 1 regiment, and they didn't have enough trained blokes and NCOs.

How times change!
Yep, gotta agree with you now, but at the time we were young NIGS and didn’t see the dangers, we’d barely shot live rounds, let alone taken on a credible enemy. We just wanted to finish training and get the f*ck outa Dodge to our new units
 
Yep, gotta agree with you now, but at the time we were young NIGS and didn’t see the dangers, we’d barely shot live rounds, let alone taken on a credible enemy. We just wanted to finish training and get the f*ck outa Dodge to our new units

Nothing new. In 1972 at 8 sigs, the amount of times we were mustered on the square in the early hours, beacause the IRA had phoned in a bomb threat, several hundred very pissed off trainees, and up graders, freezing our bollox off in winter, while some hero's were to dispatched to search the accommodation blocks, this happened numerous times. On one occasion we were kept there nearly 2 hours. The fall out was seen the following morning, in the dark, freezing blackness of a large regimental square, were piles of crap, and pools of piss. Some poor sods had to clean it up.
 
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Yep, gotta agree with you now, but at the time we were young NIGS and didn’t see the dangers, we’d barely shot live rounds, let alone taken on a credible enemy. We just wanted to finish training and get the f*ck outa Dodge to our new units
The thing that really makes me stop and think, is that in WW1 and WW2, those very same NIGs would have been sent to their field units and could possibly be facing the enemy very shortly thereafter. Certainly in WW1. All those fresh faces, full of piss & vinegar but didn't know their arse from their elbow, straight into the trenches. Jesus.
 
The thing that really makes me stop and think, is that in WW1 and WW2, those very same NIGs would have been sent to their field units and could possibly be facing the enemy very shortly thereafter. Certainly in WW1. All those fresh faces, full of piss & vinegar but didn't know their arse from their elbow, straight into the trenches. Jesus.

Great uncle arrived in France with the Northumberland Fusiliers, April 1915
Dead six days after arriving in France at St Julien outside Ypres
Casualties for the Northumberland Fusiliers that day, 42 officers (including Brigadier General Riddell killed) and 1912 other ranks. 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Battalions

I think that after 2 days the 7th Btn had 300 men remaining.

No known grave.
 
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