Labour has refused to comment on remarks by Ken Livingstone that he longs for the day when the Saudi royal family are hanging from lamp-posts.
The London mayor, recently readmitted to the Labour Party, also attacked US policy towards the Middle East.

He blamed the plight of Palestinians on the "network of corruption" between some oil sheikdoms, oil companies and the White House.

Tory mayoral hopeful Steve Norris called the comments a "dangerous rant".


Steve Norris called the comments a "dangerous rant".

With the threat of a terrorist attack on London in the air, this kind of Livingstone rant is downright dangerous," he said.

"This is exactly the kind of incitement that could have very serious consequences for our country - and the Mayor does not give a damn."
So are you saying the Saudi Royal Family will fund a terrorist attack in retaliation for having their feelings hurt Stephen?

Newflash you Muppet, what the fugg do you think they've (allegedly) been doing?

About fuggin time someone fingered the bastards. Oh you didn't mean to? lol

Ken, you just went up 200% in my humble estimation.
good one ken
my humble suggestion ignored. we base kick off point for op granby in tel aiv and clear house on the whole argumentive bunch of ******* that make up the middle east.
can't even send some of captain hook's mates back because they could'nt orgainse even a semblance of a fair trial before slotting them
Although I kind of agree with some of Red Ken's comment's I can't help thinking that he has a fair few double standards. What is he saying to his beloved public by not confirming what he said.....could it be that he doesn't want to offened people, and harm his next campaign to be King of London for another term. He seems to stand up and be counted when it suits him, i.e. when the Labour Party would not back him, but what about doing that all the time. Another liar in politics! Well suprise, surprise.

Mr Happy

groover said:
Another liar in politics! Well suprise, surprise.
Whilst I don't think I'll ever forgive Red Ken for his Sinn Fein invitation in the 70's I can't help but feel that he might be one of the few honest men in politics. I don't agree with his policies, his forums and most of his opinions but by gad I'm glad he says them. He's not that bright though! I blame the decline in teaching standards...

Incidentally, a fiver to drive in the city of London once I've paid tax road tax is a fcking liberty Ken, and it might be alright for you commute to work from Lambeth or whereever to Westminster in a red bus but in Wandsworth none of buses move now....
MY God I've read some sh1t on this site but some of these replies beggar belief.

History lesson- Both Jews and Arabs fought pretty nasty terrorist campaigns to get what they wanted in the middle east. The UN made a settlement which created the state of Israel. Many Palestinian Arabs left Israel because they preferred to live in Arab controlled state not a Jewish controlled one. The Arab states (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria) with the exception of Jordan, refused to allow the refugees to assimilate into society but kept them in camps and ensured they maintained as many grievances as possible. The aim was to create a pan Arabic state stretching from Egypt to Iran. Nasser was the mastermind (a Nationalist and a Socialist - now where have we heard those two words together before) and he made sure that the Palestinians were kept in a perpetual state of hatred in order to further his own political ends.

Since 1948 the massed ranks of Arab nations have made three attempts to wipe the state of Israel off the face of the earth. Blatant armed aggression in contradiction of several UN resolutions. In the meantime the Palestinians (albeit encouraged by other National Socialist Arab states) repaid the Jordanian hospitality by attempting a coup against King Hussein. It would have succeeded if the Bedou hadn't come in from the desert and sorted the ingrates out.

Since 1973 the Israeli record has not been very enlightened but then neither has the Palestinian one. The Palestinian masses keep voting in people like Arafat - a terrorist and a supporter of terrorism, and ignore the Palestinian Middle Class who's only contribution to the cause has been to persuade the British middle class and the left wing of the labour party that the Israelis are all thugs. The Israelis have problems voting a decent Govt in due to their use of proportional representation, but given the number of school children killed by suicide bombers, they can hardly be blamed (though not condoned) for going for the hard liners.

The Saudi Royal family are hardly the nicest or most honest people on earth but then if one wants to start throwing stones.

Red Ken honest, don't swallow the crap - look at his record, look at the sort of people he supports - anyone who's anti British or anti American. And as for him travelling around London on a bus just look at the taxi bill for the mayor of London.

There are a lot of Israelis and a lot of Palestinians who want a fair and sensible resolution to the problems in that part of the world. Quite frankly some vicious little trot mouthing off his prejudices won't help things one bit.

Blair getting Ken back into the Labour Party says more about Blair than Livingstone and (oh it hurts me to say this) makes me agree with Brown and Prescott.

Get real the lot of you. Terrorism is Terrorism is Terrorism, you either loathe it with all your heart and soul or you are part of it. If you want to hang the Saudi Royal family from a lampost how soon before you want to hang anyone who disagrees with you next to them. I don't support the Israeli government and the way it treats the Palestinians, but I can't support the Palestinians as long as certain elements keep brainwashing their young people into blowing themselves and anyone who happens to be standing around so that those elements can seize power.

There has to be solutions out there, but we'll never achieve them whilst ********* are prepared to get other people to murder innocents so they can seize political control.

As a last point anyone else condoning or advocating the overthrow of an established state by violent and illegal means should report to their local security section and express their views to those people.
As a last point anyone else condoning or advocating the overthrow of an established state by violent and illegal means should report to their local security section and express their views to those people.
That's us out of Iraq then?
I tend to switch my ears off when the idiots of the left wing of this country come into view of the TV.

Terrorism is Terrorism is Terrorism, couldn't agree with it more. Politics is such a minefield especially when you are a PC bunch of lefty arrseholes (All hail the glorious leader).

Still, glad I'm an illiteraatre squaddie :D
"Terrorism is Terrorism is Terrorism"

Unless you win - then you're a freedom fighter. These things are subjective I'm afraid. Just look up (say) the bombing of the King David Hotel, Irgun, Haganah and the Stern Gang for some interesting reading. But we don't refuse to talk to the Israelis just because they kidnapped two british army Sgts and hung them in an olive grove in 1947 (to take but one example of many).

Of course, there are organisations out there whose goals and ours are mutually exclusive. There are some that perhaps we could make a deal with. One of the major problems we have dealing with terrorism is our (or should I say the US) inability to perceive these shades of gray and act accordingly.

Shouting out macho slogans may play well to the electorate but if what was going on in Fallujah was happening in a UK city how well disposed would you be to the occupying forces ? Would you be saying serves them right or would you be off on the motorway with your AK ? Do you think that we could have sorted out NI by treating it in the same manner as the US are treating the Iraqis ?

Things are never that simple I'm afraid.
I believe Livingstone is an egomanic in the classic sense ( I'm sure the AMS people here will be able to provide clarification).

To my observation, he is only interested in publicity and therefore posterity. Everything he does is aimed at getting his name "up in lights" and it doesn't matter if it is a success or a failure.

He has shown himself to be a nasty little man by assualting someone at a private party ( how the Met let him get away with that is another question, but there again he is their Boss). Look at the venom he spewed at the local council that dared to rip up those b*stard speed humps. But obviuosly OK for him to break Labor Party rules and stand as Mayor of course :wink:

Since he has been in power the bill for the GLA has increased by over 30%. For what??

Conjestion charging may work inside the zone, but London is a nightmare outside it. Try putting a question to Tranfort for London - these people have perfected the art of telling you to f*ck off .

He fiddled the increase in roadworks befor the CC and now he is fiddling the consultation in West London. He only believes in democracy, as long as he is in charge and everyone agrees with him.

As for murdering the Saudi Royal family (children included one presumes), what is the difference between that and bombing a train full of comuters? Violence to achieve political ends is just that, no matter who the victims are.

I my opinion, people that vote for him are either stupid, on the take or too lazy to think.
Strange - sorry don't agree with you. If I got my hands on the people who bombed the King David I would be quite happy to pull the lever myself. As to the men who hung those Sgts, I'd add drawing and quartering to their punishment (though I completely disagree with the Para Sgt who said after the incident that it took Hitler six years to kill six million jews - We could kill the rest in a few weeks).

But that's not the point, neither is the crap you spout abot Fallujah.

Terrorism is Terrorism, if you don't believe that try walking into a pub that some hero of the revolution (or indeed reaction) has just bombed. SMELL IT, get a good lungful. Look at the broken bodies and the bits of flesh splashed against the wall. Help carry a young girl with a chair leg sticking out of her thigh to an ambulance. Thankfully not my experience but those of a very good friend of mine.

There are people out there whose goals are mutually exclusive to mine (stop the anti spam crap it just pigeon holes you) and quite frankly that's all part of lifes rich picture. I was brought up to believe that in this country the rule is "I may detest what you say but I will fight to the end to uphold your right to say it" and as an immigrants son that seems pretty fair to me. The Spams might not see shades of grey (why do you spell grey with an 'a' are you a Spam yourself) but I certainly can. Bombing and murdering innocent people going about their lawful business is not grey it's BLACK.

Now I am neither macho nor a politician. The UK, in case you hadn't noticed is a parliamentary democracy. We vote the sad bastards into power and we can vote them out again. If we were invaded I would fight and if we lost I would fight on (assuming I wasn't put into a camp to be dealt with like several of my fathers relations, and no I'm not Jewish) and keep on fighting - but I would fight the enemies soldiers.

You don't know what I feel about the Spams actions in Fallujah, but for the record it's not the way to solve any problem. Also for the record, having been in that country I'm quite sure that the people causing the trouble are in a minority doing so for their own particular ends - not for a better Iraq but for their own ends.

Now pal the contention is that Mr Livingstone wants to hang the Saudi Royal family from lamp-posts. Do you agree with that contention or would you like to see them replaced by a democratically elected government representing the people who elected them.

You are right about one thing - Nothing is ever that simple. It's just a shame you don't recognise how complicated things are.
I've just been watching the news re the Japs who've been released and the poor Italian who was murdered (the BBC said executed, but then they obviously don't know the difference).

Presumably Strange you feel a great deal of empathy for the kidnappers, you can feel their pain. Let's hope it never happens to you. It's wrong and if you can't see that you are an even sadder person than even I take you for.
Gentlemen, probably not expressed myself very well here. I was not expressing any support for any group currently operating. I do not support the kidnappers in Iraq, to be honest it didn't cross my mind that anyone would think I did.

However, no doubt the people doing it would point to the hundreds of Iraqis in hospital in Fallujah and use them as justification for their actions. They would no doubt get emotive about the deaths and maimings they've seen, caused by the coalition. Doesn't make either side right. It doesn't make the feelings of shock and outrage at the premature death of a loved one on either side any less. Whether or not it was accidental or deliberate doesn't matter at the time to the people affected.

More pertinently, from a military point of view, if you cannot understand the opposition's point of view you are unable to predict his future actions accurately. Doesn't mean you agree though. Always a problem with emotive situations like this though, the commander may not accept what he hears from G2 as it conflicts with his worldview.

And I'm not knocking the Americans per se, I've worked with them and I like them. However, what happened in Fallujah has set the locals against them and they've got a far harder task ahead as a result. They are not helping matters by the way they're behaving at the moment, and to that extent then yes, I am criticising them.

In order to stop people being killed some unpleasant choices need to be made. Are you happy with the way NI is being resolved ? - I'm not happy seeing McGuinness and Adams walking about free but no-one's let off any bombs recently - fair trade-off ?

I do take your point about not using "terrorist" methods to resist were positions reversed, and I respect it. If I was to be honest, I wouldn't be so moral. I'd do anything necessary to remove invaders from the UK.

As far as the Saudis go, the current regime is dodgy but are tolerated as they give us all the oil and buy lots of stuff from the West. Maybe it's not the best and the locals would be better off without it. The problem is that superimposing democracy on a population that has no idea what it is usually fails in the short term. We occupied Germany and Japan post WW2 for quite a while to make sure they got the hang of it. And as far as dodgy regimes go they're not at the top of the list by any means, so why pick on them ?
because it makes easy headline grabbing copy...

Ken is a loud mouthed, pompous egomaniac who will do / say anything to grab headline inches.

I would be more than happy to see him squished by any form of London transport - so long as they ran over him a couple of times to make sure. :twisted:

The b*stard has done bugger all to improve London and yet keeps demanding even more money to do bugger all. :evil:

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