has the VC been replaced?

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by worm-on-a-stick, Jul 9, 2004.

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  1. I have been told that the Victoria Cross (VC) is no longer the highest medal for gallantry as it has been terminated.

    If this is the case does this mean that the Military Medal (MM) is now the highest award or has a new medal been created to replace the VC above that of the MM?

    Any views please.

  2. If it's true, why has the VC been removed??? Do we not have brave people anymore? I think not!

    Any more info would be appreciated.
  3. I think you'll find that the ADC is the highest award available.
    (if you disallow the dodgy black ribboned one).

    Where did you hear this? I'm fairly sure that there would have been more publicity/public outcry if 'twas true.


  4. I doubt it. If you watched the programme a few months ago which was hosted by Jeremy Clarkson, you'll appreciate just how rare they are due to the pure circumstances required for the award (that was one good TV programme!)

    As for the MM........I thought only the MC was awarded nowadays, in order to eliminate the class differentitaion between ORs and Wooperts.

    I personally possess lots of medals. Despite that fact, none are for being particularly brave, I hasten to add. Although, as a younger man, I was exceptionally courageous beyond the call of Paderborner Gold, during the battle of the 'City Club', Paderborn (a lesser known skirmish in a long forgotten wadi). Many of my freinds still bear the scars (mentally and physically) accrued during our frequent clashes with those Geordie Cnuts from the 15th/19th Hussars, who would only fight when they had odds of 15:1.

    You may have beat the sh*t out of us, you coal eating, shoeless Northern Monkeys............but we poked loads of your wives when you deployed to Belfast.

    Fcuk the Alamo..........remember the London Pub!!!!!!
  5. Even if it has been replaced it will not, I fear, be by the MM.

    John Major fiddled with the awards system and got rid of the MM in the 90s. He thought that it was rather anachronistic to award a gallantry medal (MM) to ORs and a gallantry cross (MC) to orficers. In spite of being advised at the time that the award criteria were different and not to be confused by the common tern 'Military', the cnut went ahead and did it anyway. :evil:

    The MM was awarded for acts of gallantry in the face of the enemy and the MC was awarded for gallantry PLUS an element of leadership (reasoning being that orficers should be gallant anyway). When first instituted in the Great War, the MC was more or less automatically earned after 40 raids or patrols into no-mans land.
    Major also replaced the Territorial Decoration and the Territorial Efficiency Medal with the anodyne VRSM.

    Interestingly, the greatest furore was raised by the ORs who rather liked their medal ribbons to say something about their service (ie TEM or MM earned as OR, MC or TD earned as LE orficer etc).

    Won't take much to conclude that this was yet another hamfisted attempt by career civvies to 'enlighten' us to the gentle, egalitarian civilian ways for which we nasty, coarse and terribly un-PC military ruffians show scant respect.

    At least we know how to put our Y-fronts and trousers on in the right order.
  6. i take it that the black ribbon is the GC but what is the ADC and why would this replace the VC?

    have they run out of cannon from which they make the VC from?
  7. ADC = Arrse Donation Cross?

    I can't imagine that a govt as obsessed with spin as this one would even think about getting rid of the VC - and HMQ would probably make a bit of a fuss that would've made it into the Torygraph by now.

    I think that idea that the VC is being replaced/terminated might be a mangling of the idea that it's almost impossible to win one these and remain in the state of fitness known as 'alive'. This argument began at the time when it was thought that Mr Blair, well known leftie & CND member that he was, would be very unlikely to send the armed forces to war again...

    This led to the argument that if it is impossible to win without dying in the process, surely the time had come to either a) slightly revise the criteria for awarding it or b) stop awarding it at all. There was also a book called 'The Last Eleven?' the subtext of which was that the VC would never be awarded again.

    Although it's seen as 'second prize' to the VC, the GC is in fact meant to be equal in status to the VC, the only thing militating against that being the order of precedence in wearing the medals (even though the likelihood of someone winning both and wondering which medal comes first is rather slim). If the GC can still be won for demonstrating supreme gallantry (and Tpr Chris Finney has shown that it can be), I'd suggest that the VC isn't dead yet.

    There is still enough material from the cannons. The Clarkson programme said that there were, I think, seven blanks in the jeweller's vault, along with a lump of bronze big enough for some more yet.
  8. and even if we ran out of russian guns to make them you could use
    somebodies elses guns must have thousands of pieces lying in around
    its not as if their very big or even good looking .
  9. We won't run out of bronze as the material they use is off the ball (can't remeber the proper name) at the back of the cannons the two cannons are standing on the regt square at woolwich.
  10. Tpr Finney appears to have been awarded the GC because it was a "blue on blue" and a VC would have been "off-message" with its "enemy" associations, to use a disgusting New Labour term.
  11. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    The VC hasn't been replaced.

    There is plenty of cannon left:

    http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/aahistor.htm has some information but here is the best bit I think:

  12. The chances of being awarded both the VC and the GC may well be slim, as Archimedes points out.

    But he shouldn't be discouraged - the perhaps more improbable feat of being awarded the VC and Bar has been achieved three times. :wink:
  13. And two of those were medics :D
  14. I had the privilege of talking or should I say listening to a VC winner a while back. I was awe struck. As with most if not all VC winners is the humble nature they possess. This chap thought he did nothing more than 'do his duty begrudgingly'. Real terms he was a super human and rightly deserved the award having read his citation. In our short chat, I suggested that had he thought about touring schools to give a short 'chat' about what he did and what it means to be the holder of such an award. Humble humility was his reaction and he did not think that this generation was any different from his own. When asked, they would give what was required. Truly a moment in my life talking to him. Sadly deceased now.

    As has been said, one of the over riding requirements for the award is to not actually be in a position to receive it from Her Majesty. Something that has rather put me off from trying for it!
  15. Maybe there's some cold comfort for those men who don't receive the award in the old addage that it's better to have people asking why they didn't win the VC rather than why they did.