Has the UKIP done enough?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Flight, Jun 8, 2009.

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  1. I don't want a referendum.

    0 vote(s)
  2. Yes, they should disband if promised one.

    0 vote(s)
  3. Yes, but they should fight the election anyway.

    0 vote(s)
  4. No and I won't vote for the Tories without one

    0 vote(s)
  1. Flight

    Flight LE Book Reviewer

    With the European and local council election results almost out of the way it will be interesting to see which parties change their policies.

    It isn't just the Labour party in crisis, the Lib Dems did rather poorly even though they were not greatly implicated in the expenses row. The conservatives would fare poorly at the next general election if they continue to lose votes to the UKIP, even the No2EU party secured 1% of votes. Add to that the votes for the BNP and you have almost 24% of the electorate who voted for anti-EU parties. Many of these protest votes of course.

    You'd think that Cameron would be mad not to, at the very least, promise a referendum, however that would cause him all sorts of problems within his party. I'm sure Ken Clarke would dust off his soap box.

    The UKIP on the other hand is looking to field 500 candidates at the next election, would they really disband if Cameron turned Euro skeptic?

    You get the feeling that the conservatives are assuming that UKIP supporters will vote tactically to dump labour out of power. Without a clear policy on the matter, and possibly with a year to go, you do wonder whether Cameron's complete lack of policies could bite him on the arse as more people opt for the certainty and stated goals of the euro skeptic parties. Last time they only polled 2% however Daniel Hannan in particular seems to have got his message across rather well, disatisfaction with the major parties is at an all time high and the Lisbon treaty would make a Euro superstate an actuality.
  2. Cameron is still persuing the tactics of non-committal politics, and as far as anyone can tell it's working very well:
    The conservatives smashed labour and won the euro elections, no mean feat, and yet the biggest detractors, UKIP, are very specific in their scope.
    Cameron will be attempting to woo the centre as he is successfully doing at the moment, aswell as positive grabs from labour, notably in wales, untill it gets close to a general election and he can put down his markers. All he has to do is say he will hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty and he's won back all the votes he lost to UKIP in a heartbeat.
    There's no point in committing to it now because it will serve as a way to attack his party before it's absolutely neccesary to start debating the issues. If he keeps himself devoid of solid policies until he has to, it will be hard for labour to attack him.
  3. The conservatives did not smash labour. They merely sat on their backsides and picked up whatever votes were lying around. This is exactly what Labour did in the GE of 97. Tories and Labour are exactly the same, awash with interchangeable untrusworthy career politicians. The events of the last few days have shown that at least some of the electorate are waking up to that fact.
  4. Flight

    Flight LE Book Reviewer

    All fair points but with the only people in the country not wanting a general election being sitting Labour MPs his tactic of... well not having tactics is surely about to come to an end.

    Whilst I'd agree on their image I wouldn't on the actuality. The UKIP has a fully fleshed out manifesto which is more than the conservatives have. Plenty of vote winners in there should they choose to persue it, I'd go as far as saying that given enough funding they could turn their image around, from pressure group to new kids on the block political party. How many sitting conservative MPs are going to have a hard time of things at the next election given their expenses claims....
  5. Dear oh dear! 'trowel', is your main task shovelling shit? I thought so - cat-shit of course, -silly of me to ask.

    Labour were stuffed in the recent elections. They will not permit a General Election because they will be totally and utterly destroyed. Terminally maybe. I do hope so. (When Wales and Scotland are lost - ???).

    UKIP has expressed the man in the street's' disatisfaction (loathing) of our self-centred, troughing, forelock tugging, knee-jerking response to every diktat emanating from the


    If I had no idea how dire were the national finances, I would be 'non-committal' too. I do not believe that we have heard the worst, the very worst, of the state of our national finances yet - we will, we surely will, when Mr. Cameron enters Downing Street.

    I very much hope that shortly after the despatch of this disreputable government, Bliar and Brown are arrested for dereliction of public duty!!
  6. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Done enough? I was not aware they had done anything.....

    They fielded nearly 500 candidates at the last general election according to their website, and measured success by the amount of deposits not returned - not exactly a monumental political achievement. They have had a few troughing in Brussels, which will continue, and they also have accomplished nothing.

    People who voted for them have also been saying they would not do so in a national election (as it would be a wasted vote).

    The tories are Eurosceptic, just not Europhobic, which is the way to be IMO. I hope they get the issues on the table.
  7. Flight

    Flight LE Book Reviewer

    The last general election was an awful long time ago. Who was it that said a week is a long time in politics?

    There has been a sea change in domestic politics over the last couple of months, anyone standing against a sitting conservative MP who has been on the fiddle is likely to stand a good chance, after all who else could conservatives vote for?

    We'll see tactical voting, of that I'm sure. Whether that tactical voting is in the form of anti-troughing or anti-labour is only an issue in labour controlled districts.

    The UKIP's original aims were to force a referendum, however things have changed. You do sense that there are a lot of people who no longer see their UKIP vote as having been a mere protest.

    Liam Fox's comments on the Lisbon treaty don't bode well for Cameron.

    IMO they need to, and quickly. Frankly however whichever way they turn will pose questions.
  8. I'mgoing to be voting UKIP in the general election. Policies are top notch.
  9. What is their policy on defence?
  10. Flight

    Flight LE Book Reviewer

    40% increase on spending if memory serves.

    UKIP defence policy

    That document was pulled apart on a thread a while back. They could be accused of being slightly naive in some respects but the intent is clear enough.
  11. I tend to agree. When you look at the actual number of votes (rather than the %) the parties received I would say UKIP and Labour smashed Labour. IIRC the actual number of votes for most parties stayed about the same except Labours plummeted and UKIP's rocketed.

    Cameron should wake up and make a referendum guarantee, should the Conservatives get in power. That would probably gain him a landslide. The EU is so very different from the common market we joined the people deserve a say.
  12. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Very good if you read the document on their website - but I would not trust them to have done the maths to make it viable.
    As we have seen, it is easily to write policies on paper.....