Has the time come to admit we need a return ot the MTI?

Discussion in 'RLC' started by George_007, Aug 13, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. As I sit in my ivory tower surveying my Regiment; I note I am looking across all trades; yet I cannot fill thie instructor posts allocated to me. Why is this? What are the best soldiers in the Army frightened of? Come on boys and girls - you draw the Queen's shilling, we send you to interesting and exciting places, Fcuk me we even give you medals for most of them. Get of you arses and get into training. Your CR's will improve, your military skills will improve and I promise you so will the quality of the recruits we are getting.
     
  2. Don't be an imbecile. The MTI's (or MT Heads as they were known) were a horrible cast off of the old RAOC who themselves were unable to provide anyone with skills and training enough to train soldiers then made a trade out of sending people away on courses and training up others. This had the unfortunate conseqence that they actually had little or no real world soldiering experience. The ones I worked with were medeless freaks with no friends and a Napoleon complex who attained rank simply because there was no competition. On the rare occasion they went on tour they would wander aimlessly around trying to do jobs which they were not qualified for and always badgering the Sqn hirachy to let them organise training afternoons.
     
  3. Should that not be "empty heads"? As for an imbecile, perhaps not, I am not clinging to an outdated, illegal badge. More TRF's for everyone. Thankyou.
     
  4. Perhaps it is because the best soldiers are not stupid enough to put themselves in a position in which they can draw incoming... The thankless task that is training, involves an inordinate level of bulllshit that is nothing to do with training soldiers and everything to do with the hierarchy armour plating their own backs whilst demonstrating the Hitler approach to their own staff!

    The promotion benefits are negligable anyway and certainly not worth the aggrevation.

    If the training environment is looked at with a view to protecting and supporting the instructors a little better, perhaps people will volunteer again.
     
  5. The reason you are not able to fill all of your line serial numbers is that you are in the same predicament as every other unit, there just isnt enough people to go around. Also with such policies as frontline first, if the operational units cannot be filled, then the rear of the rear has no chance.

    Coupled with that are the red/yellow card systems and the NCO's literally having to bring the recruits breakfast in bed. Then there's the constant investigations in to being to harsh or not being politically correct enough, no wonder good NCO's shun Deepcut/ATR/Leconfield.

    Im suprised recruit training hasnt been put out to the private sector, or here is a good idea, form a new corp similar to MPGS with ex serving soldiers? It could be called MRTS?
     
  6. Any suggestion to sort out the shower of sh1t thats the RLC will do in my book.
     
  7. As someone who is now classed as an MTI, my posting order says so. I just thought I'd clear a point up. An MT head (emptyhead) is what drivers get called within transport regts by the Training Wing Instructors.
     
  8. PMSL - Who do they think they are?

    Bunch of pamphlet heads who have little tour experience and advise on pre tour training and ITDs. What do they do on tour (if they go) - Weapon handling tests and first aid!

    No wonder its dead as a trade - i dont know who thought it was ever a good idea.
     
  9. The idea of returning to the MTI trade is a good idea, but only if we learn from the mistakes that were made originaly the nightmare MTIs were the one who went through the DGOS system no experience what so ever except for experience in teaching nothing to draw on basically. But the retreads from the infantry were in my opinion the best MTIs not only could they teach they had experience also the guys that changed trades from within the corps at about the five year point they the routine of normal Squadron life and that training is not always the top priority and they also had experience in the trade they had first jioned as and therefore were an asset on Op Tours.
     
  10. Hmmm, having seen both driver trade and former RAOC trades up close, the essential failing appears to be one of SNCO leadership. In order to be a SNCO in the driver trade, you generally have to be able to instruct in something of value. HAZMAT, NBC, First Aid etc etc. The supply trades require no such skills and young soldeirs are not encouraged to push themselves for these skills.

    Do not believe me? Get a UNICOM print and compare trade to mil skills. QED
     
  11. I have some sympathy with your sentiments but don't you think you are generalising a little? Some MTI's were pillocks who loved the sound of their own voice and were clearly Incompetent, but not all. Looking back to my basic training at Blackdown I remember a cross section of MTI's or RD as it ws then, some were very good and knew how to get the best out of recruits without verbal & physical abuse, I seem to remember one In particular who was one of the RD (MTI) staff with Delhi Platoon an ex para, he knew his stuff and comanded respect without effort.

    Your comments about "aimlessly wandering round" strike a cord, I remember MTIs on exercise never had a roll to play, they would usually end up "helping" the CQ while at all costs trying to stay nice and clean.
     
  12. The argument 'for' MTIs is that certain (not all may I add!!!) individuals within the corps are using the ATR instructor posts purely for a career jump. For the two years in these posts they are doing the bare minimum required of them and are producing below average trainees as a result. To an outsider of the training world, (OC/CO or CR writting officer) some of these people are seen as assests, but there are one or two who were not even fit to take up the instructor role in the first place.

    Although the MTI trade was not perfect (DGOS etc) the advantage was that the individual would specialise in in the delivery of military training, ITDs, pre-deployment training, LFTT packages etc. When a tradesman/woman does the 2 year instructor post, it only may be for that length of time before being returned to their original trade. With regards to military training after a while due to being 'out of the loop' they won't stay current/competant unless they are diligent and keep themselves up to date. Yet they still get called upon to deliver training. Since the demise of the trade the standard of military skills and the delivery of instruction across the RLC has deteriorated.
     
  13. I remember an MTI got an MBE for running transition training from SLR to SA80 during the first gulf war......WTF!
     
  14. In answer to the original question, no, no, no, no, no!

    Almost every experience of MTIs I have ever had has been negative. There may be problems in the Corps but the return of MTIs will not solve them. I can understand why the RAOC had MTIs given the far larger proportion of RAOC soldiers employed in base depots both in UK and BAOR. These depots have now disappeared or have been civilianised. The RCT had individuals who had specialised in training roles but most instructors were drawn from, and returned to, normal regimental duty and were promoted for demonstrated ability in their primary role.

    These comments are not meant to a former cap-badge rant. The MTI trade was created for a different time and different place. Times have changed, let the trade die.
     
  15. We do need a return to something or creation of a new training beast, as the current system of allowing the driver trade to hold most Sergeant Major and nearly all RSM slots is madness, it is purely for employment and carear progression. The trade comes off the vehicle park and wallah they are stick men all of a sudden. The SSM/RSM/Trg Instr route needs a structure and selected individuals. The down side of course would be less jobs for the driver trade at higher ech but we can stomach that after all other trades do