Has the Nanny State and the Puritans taken over?

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
#5
There's a lot of sense in it, though the main drift is overly political for my tastes. I reckon much of the trend highlighted is a result of the marketing industry taking some science and then bending it to create a new market, viz bottled water, low fat foods, snake oil and so on.

I certainly disregard everything to do with salt, fat, hydration, alcohol, sun-screen and so on. If I smoked, I'd also ignore the guidelines in that area.

To give one example about water: I'm a long distance runner with over 34,000 miles in my training diary. I do not drink water, except when racing. Otherwise, my entire liquid intake is based on tea, coffee, beer (my main source of fluids), wine and whatever water lies in my food. According to the water industry I should have died of dehydration about 30 years ago.

As a topical aside, I read that Sgt Nightingale's memory problems were brought on by drinking too much water on his endurance run in Brazil. Dangerous stuff is too much water and I would have expected him to know that.
 
#6
I do believe that rewiring your own house became illegal due to the number of people being killed by enthusiastic amateurs who thought an earthing strap was some sort of kinky sex toy.

Same principle as not being allowed to install your own gas fire.
 
#7
I do believe that rewiring your own house became illegal due to the number of people being killed by enthusiastic amateurs who thought an earthing strap was some sort of kinky sex toy.

Same principle as not being allowed to install your own gas fire.
IIRC it was because of a Labour MP's daughter being electrocuted from kitchen wiring done by a kitchen fitter.

Instead of accepting that she should have employed an electrician the result was Part P Building regs.

And a dogs dinner lowering the standards of domestic electricians. See all the instant training schemes and franchises ?

Labour knee jerk regulation.
 
#11
There's a lot of sense in it, though the main drift is overly political for my tastes. I reckon much of the trend highlighted is a result of the marketing industry taking some science and then bending it to create a new market, viz bottled water, low fat foods, snake oil and so on.

I certainly disregard everything to do with salt, fat, hydration, alcohol, sun-screen and so on. If I smoked, I'd also ignore the guidelines in that area.

To give one example about water: I'm a long distance runner with over 34,000 miles in my training diary. I do not drink water, except when racing. Otherwise, my entire liquid intake is based on tea, coffee, beer (my main source of fluids), wine and whatever water lies in my food. According to the water industry I should have died of dehydration about 30 years ago.

As a topical aside, I read that Sgt Nightingale's memory problems were brought on by drinking too much water on his endurance run in Brazil. Dangerous stuff is too much water and I would have expected him to know that.
That's a lot of miles. One has to assume your a 8-10 cups of tea/black coffee a day bloke?!

Ed to add; I got to the fatty empowerment part of that article and stopped reading.

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#12
A fair amount of the article is common sense type questioning, which is more often than not ignored or shouted down by the crusaders. One example is second hand smoking, does anyone else remember the 'smoke holes' where smokers were herded after smoking in general became more controlled? According to the anti smokers second hand smoke is far more dangerous than the original smoke, how was never really explained, it just is. So after all these smokers were crowded into smoke holes for a few years you would expect there to be a statisical increase in cancer cases amongst that group. There hasn't been. How do I know? If there had been the anti smoking campaigners would have been screaming the news from the rooftops.

NvCJD from BSE infected cattle, the jump of a disease from sheep, Scrapie, to cattle, BSE, to humans, NvCJD wasn't explained too well, it just happened. The threat of infection from infected spinal cords was played up, legislation brought in. Cattle over thirty months (OTM) were banned from the food chain, the prions were very dangerous, so one would expect that the first and foremost set of at risk groups would be slaughtermen, especially those in OTM slaughterhouses, yet no didn't happen. There was the case of a vegetarian who died from it at an early age, it was blamed on a hamburger eaten several years earlier. One of the chief proponents of the threat of BSE to the human race was himself a vegetarian.

I noticed last week that cheese is plat du jour for having too much salt, newspaper articles and a feature on Radio 4, where did that come from?

Alcohol units per week was a guess, to tie in with drink driving campaigns

Five a day, may be too little or too much, but does help out the sellers, not the growers, of fruit and veg.

Once everything is controlled, demonised, or banned outright, what will the people doing these things, 'for your own good' turn their attentions to then?
 
#14
A fair amount of the article is common sense type questioning, which is more often than not ignored or shouted down by the crusaders. One example is second hand smoking, does anyone else remember the 'smoke holes' where smokers were herded after smoking in general became more controlled? According to the anti smokers second hand smoke is far more dangerous than the original smoke, how was never really explained, it just is. So after all these smokers were crowded into smoke holes for a few years you would expect there to be a statisical increase in cancer cases amongst that group. There hasn't been. How do I know? If there had been the anti smoking campaigners would have been screaming the news from the rooftops.

NvCJD from BSE infected cattle, the jump of a disease from sheep, Scrapie, to cattle, BSE, to humans, NvCJD wasn't explained too well, it just happened. The threat of infection from infected spinal cords was played up, legislation brought in. Cattle over thirty months (OTM) were banned from the food chain, the prions were very dangerous, so one would expect that the first and foremost set of at risk groups would be slaughtermen, especially those in OTM slaughterhouses, yet no didn't happen. There was the case of a vegetarian who died from it at an early age, it was blamed on a hamburger eaten several years earlier. One of the chief proponents of the threat of BSE to the human race was himself a vegetarian.

I noticed last week that cheese is plat du jour for having too much salt, newspaper articles and a feature on Radio 4, where did that come from?

Alcohol units per week was a guess, to tie in with drink driving campaigns

Five a day, may be too little or too much, but does help out the sellers, not the growers, of fruit and veg.

Once everything is controlled, demonised, or banned outright, what will the people doing these things, 'for your own good' turn their attentions to then?
You probably want to listen to the last Moral Maze on R4 podcast. It was on the NHS and the right to care due to lifestyle choice and personal responsibility. There was some fairly chilling arguments from a perspective of 'environmental determinism' by one of the guests.

The salt thing is ******* horseshit, most fat demonisation is the same detail. I often chuckle when a 60's kid indoctrinated by iffy science espouses the danger of eating more than two (or so other arbitrary number) eggs a day with a fag in one hand and a pint in the other. Smoke and mirrors I tells ya. Flora plastic spread needs binning too.


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#15
The rot started with the adverts for Flora; when men started to eat what their wives had been told was good for them.

Huzzah for butter and Jersey milk!

[video=youtube;_piSsGckJw8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_piSsGckJw8[/video]
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
I love the use of the phrase "nanny state" when 99.999% of people have never had a nanny. What this country needs is a government that smacks your bottom when you're naughty and that brings you hot milk and a biscuit at bed time. Except the kind of people who talk about a nanny state have banned smacking.
 
#18
I read the article and experienced mixed emotions: like other posters, I found some of it very sensible but at the back of my mind, I was metaphorically trying to break off this conversation with a lucid nutter.

As someone with a fair degree of numerical literacy and a strong statistical and scientific/engineering background (albeit over 20 years ago) I do wonder about much of what is purported to be science, especially in the medja. If there is one book I can recommend sceptics to read, it is the thoroughly enjoyable:

Bad Science (4th Estate) by Dr Ben Goldacre.

It is about the misuse of science by quacks, journalists, and big pharmaceutical companies. It's sensible, solid and distinctly away from the tin-foil hat brigade. His website is worth a visit:

Bad Science
 
#19
Love the part that went "having sex after a few drinks is classed as rape". Clearly a well thought out and very sensible statement.
Didn't see that during my cursery glance, but you are aware that is indeed the case?

Male and female have a few drinks, male and female see each other, male and female have a few more drinks, male and female start kissing, moving to heavy petting, moving to ending up somewhere or other,male and female shag, female regrets it, male gets done for rape.

Because female was drunk, she couldn't consent. Thus even though she said yes at the time and was begging for it, it is rape.

Male was drunk, but that doesn't matter, becaues he's a rapist.

That is actually pretty much fact.
 
#20
I love the use of the phrase "nanny state" when 99.999% of people have never had a nanny. What this country needs is a government that smacks your bottom when you're naughty and that brings you hot milk and a biscuit at bed time. Except the kind of people who talk about a nanny state have banned smacking.
This smacking that you talk of, is nanny wearing a uniform?
 

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