Has the human rights Act effected the rules of engagment?

#1
Im a third year law student at portsmouth uni who is about to attend my rcb briefing. Im writing my dissertation on how the Human Rights Act has effected the rules of engagement. The subject is of great interest to me and i would appriciate any comments or insights into it.

I understand the HRA only effects troops in the UK so I only have the conflict in Northern Ireland to reference. I was wondering though if troops are under additional pressure by worrying whether they will be prosecuted in the European Court of Justice for actions undertaken in the defence of the realm serving abroad in Op Telic or Afghanistan. Cheers.
 
#3
spooner said:
Im a third year law student at portsmouth uni who is about to attend my rcb briefing. Im writing my dissertation on how the Human Rights Act has effected the rules of engagement. The subject is of great interest to me and i would appriciate any comments or insights into it.

I understand the HRA only effects troops in the UK so I only have the conflict in Northern Ireland to reference. I was wondering though if troops are under additional pressure by worrying whether they will be prosecuted in the European Court of Justice for actions undertaken in the defence of the realm serving abroad in Op Telic or Afghanistan. Cheers.
without wishing to be pedantic if you are a 3rd year law student you may wish to check the meanings of "affected" and "effected"
 
#5
The HRA does affect any serving British Soldier worldwide.

It's not just the enemy we need to worry about now, it's Bliars mates in the legal profession.

My humble opinion is that if you take up arms against us, you should suffer the invariable fatal consequences, even if we find the scrote several months later in Tipton.
 
#6
Human Rights are truly and unequivocably for massive homs. FACT.
 
#7
You are a law student. I assume therefor that you will one day be a lawyer. Your choice of profession proves beyond all reasonable doubt that you are not human and have no rights.
 
#8
How has the HRA affected the ROE?

Simple... we just hide the bodies more effectively!
 
#9
Blokeonabike said:
You are a law student. I assume therefor that you will one day be a lawyer. Your choice of profession proves beyond all reasonable doubt that you are not human and have no rights.
Just like a terrorist!
 
#12
Go and ask Cherie Bliar, her feckin word seems to be law when it comes to human rights. Dont matter what squaddies do. In the eyes of the politicians in this country,if it gets them a few votes and column inches they'll feck us over in a heartbeat. :roll:
 
#13
*As mentioned above, ROE is based upon law, specifically, that of self-defence and it gives the soldier no special dispensation from the law. If you are 3rd year, you should have done/are doing criminal law. There was a homicide case regarding a soldier who fire upon and killed some joy riders who drove through a VCP w/o stopping. HE was ok to fire when the vehicle was coming at him, but he was no longer acting in self-defence when he continued firing after the vehicle had passed him by. Look it up; some of the comments in the case might prove useful.

Unless the HRA has affected criminal law and the law of self-defence, then I doubt it has had any effect on ROE.

*Not currently, nor have ever been, a British Soldier.

Edit: I think its R v Clegg.
 
#14
Thought_Criminal said:
How has the HRA affected the ROE?

Simple... we just hide the bodies more effectively!
You may only shoot someone with bullets that have been polished with braso, not windoleen.....
:numberone: :numberone: :threaten: :threaten:
 
#15
Cheers R v Clegg is pretty useful. Unfortunatly after the reforms of the ECj following the treaty of nice, countries in opposition to the war in iraq particularly France have attempted to use the HRA as a platform to attack the reasoning behind the invasion of Iraq (Gentle v prime minister 2006).

The european court of human rights in Martin v UK 2006 attempted to retry a soldier who had recieved a court martial for conduct undisclosed. The ECHR ruled the court martial a mistrial on lack of evidence. It all depends if we want to stay in the EU and listen to them. In this case we ignored there decision. However since they became the highest court of appeal in every member country they are pushing for increased control.
 
#16
Snakes_R_Us said:
ROE are policy not Law. Law allows the right to self defence so no issue.
I rather thought that New Labour had effectively got rid of that concept.

Try and take notes about your assailants, their vehicle, etc and then when (if) you get out of hospital you can pass it on to the proper authorities for their measured consideration.

On no account should you fantasise about self-defense or citizen's arrests let alone giving the ned(s) a good seeing to.
 
#17
Scabster_Mooch said:
*As mentioned above, ROE is based upon law, specifically, that of self-defence and it gives the soldier no special dispensation from the law. If you are 3rd year, you should have done/are doing criminal law. There was a homicide case regarding a soldier who fire upon and killed some joy riders who drove through a VCP w/o stopping. HE was ok to fire when the vehicle was coming at him, but he was no longer acting in self-defence when he continued firing after the vehicle had passed him by. Look it up; some of the comments in the case might prove useful.

Unless the HRA has affected criminal law and the law of self-defence, then I doubt it has had any effect on ROE.

*Not currently, nor have ever been, a British Soldier.


As above, you have an inherent right to self defence as in normal criminal law, provided that there is reasonable force and the response is proprotionate. In general terms therefore if you are being fired upon you can fire back. If the threat is not life theratening then lethal force should not be used.

So no HRA has not effected ROE any more than it has effected the domestic situation.

The cases below are not strictly about ROE but moreover when lethal foce can be used.

R v Fisher & Wright
R v Clegg
 
#18
3rd year law student...you mean you graduate in few months and still don't know about the applicability/jursidiction of the HRA?

The Human Right Act is not geographically limited to the United Kingdom, rather to anywhere that the UK authorities can be said to have jurisdiction, it all comes down to the issue of territoriality.

It does apply to UK troops in Iraq, the case you want is Al Skeini v Secretary of State for Defence [2004] EWHC Admin 2911 http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2004/2911.html

Remember according to Mrs Blair the HRA even applies to her right to get freebies....its not simple.
 
#19
probably already been posted but ....

as per the legalities brief at OPTAG (I may have paraphrased a bit) ....

Legal regimes -
1. Host country law: applies to nationals of Host country only
2. UK law: applies to UK Forces (UK or abroad)
3. Military law: applies to UK Forces (UK or abroad)
4. International & Human Rights law: applies to every ****** no matter where they are

Therefore as Bill Oddie abroad you are subject to the legal regimes at 2, 3 and 4.

And that, m'lud, is the case for the Defence

Or I may be talking shite, in which case I best get down Lydd again (and again,and again)

QRU AR
 
#20
The rights include:

* right to life
* prohibition of torture
* prohibition of slavery and forced labour
* right to liberty and security
* right to a fair trial
* no punishment without law
* right to respect for private and family life
* freedom of thought, conscience and religion
* freedom of expression
* freedom of assembly and association
* right to marry
* prohibition of discrimination
* protection of property
* right to education
* right to free elections
* abolition of the death penalty

To be perfectly honest, soldiers dont go around thinking 'hmmm must breach the HRA today' all of our rules of engagement have, for as long as I remember enshrined these values. Maybe some things that happened in the 1970's (internment without trial) might breach HRA,. All of the concepts within the HRA are already enshrined in either civil law or criminal law anyway, so squaddies have RoE that reflect these.

Ratcatcher
 

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