Has/is the Ex-Sister-in-Law commited or is committing fraud?

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by Fat_Cav, May 10, 2012.

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  1. OK guys, just would like a quick heads up if the Ex-Sister-in-Law is or has committed some type of Fraud.

    My wife's brother got married about 10 yrs ago. She's was a divorcee who's ex was paying off the mortgage on the family home. My BiL arranged a new joint mortgage to pay off the ex-husband and an additional amount to extend the house, in which he did (he's a builder by trade)

    Through one reason or another (he couldn't keep his cock in his pants) after 3-4 years they seperated and he left the family home to move in with scrubber Nº 3. I'm not sure of the technicalities but because he couldn't keep up the payments on the joint mortgage, he somehow went into some type of voluntary bankruptcy. We understand his ex was paying off the interest only on the mortgage with no re-payment mechanism in place. o_O

    Anyway, he's been sending her divorce papers every year which she refuses to sign and I believe the BiL is either too skint or stupid to find another avenue to divorce her.

    The point has come to a head where by he's now found out (by chance looking on Right Move) that their family home has been sold STC. We know he's still on the mortgage as it was confirmed when he enquired coincidentally in the bank about a month ago and found that unbeknown to him, not only has she re-mortgaged the house with him on it a few years back, she's also added £56k of various credit and store cards she owns.

    So my questions are:
    • Has she committed fraud by re-mortgaging their home without him knowing and added a huge amount to it he may not liable for?
    • Can she sell without his permission and what checks are in place to ensure that he's in agreement to the sell and will eventually be the recipient to some of the profit as he contibuted to the mortgage for several years?

    We know she's done a few naughties with financials before when he found out she had taken out several joint loans he didn't sign up to. Also, and ironically, she's a mortgage manager in a high street bank and probably knows all the in's and out's of what she can get away with. (The mortgage and nearly all her financials dealings are never with the bank that employ's her)

    I know some of the above may sound obvious but I just need to be clear. The BiL BTW is an admin nightmare. His heart is in the right place and is pretty trusting, it's just that he has a silly habit of shagging scutters and getting caught. Also, we now believe she's delaying the divorce as it's a way to appear that they're still together for her dodgy practices.

    We just want the BiL to get what he's owed and if she has committed fraud, then she should get her just desserts legally and from the bank, as her integrity would be trashed.

    Thanks in advance :)
  2. walkyrie

    walkyrie Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    I've PM'd you.
  3. If they have been separated for more than 5 years he can divorce her without her consent:

    Reasons for divorce in England - five years separation

    As regards the house, I am not a conveyancer but it all sounds a bit dodgy. If his name is on the deeds as joint tennant she should not be able to sell without his agreement or a court order, which she is unlikely to get without his knowledge.

    He should tell the estate agent selling the house of the situation and also the solicitor acting for her; they are unlikely to want to be involved in any scam
  4. Porridge_gun

    Porridge_gun LE Good Egg (charities)

    Is he bankrupt or just an IVA?

    If he was bancrupt chances are she will have been offered a chance to buy his equity in the property, therefore meaning he has no claim.

    If it was an IVA and the property remains joint then she could have had charges placed against the house for failure to pay her unsecured debts.

    The conveyancer will prepare a completion statement. Everything linked to the house will be there, the same via a land registry search.
  5. Don't know the legal ins and outs but do know it's a high risk game she's playing and one that will likely cost her her job and any future career in the financial sector if caught out and not found to be squeaky clean.
  6. 1. If it was a joint mortgage on a jointly owned property then she should not be able to extend without his co-operation and his signature.
    2. If it was a jointly owned property then she should not have been able to sell without his consent.
    3. As they were married, the court has jurisdiction under the matrimonial causes act to make orders regarding property and other assets on divorce. It can also make orders (under section 37 of that act) to prevent disposal of property or to undo transfers already made in certain circumstances, or to freeze assets (eg the proceeds of sale if held in a bank account).

    On the face of it it would seem quite likely that she may have done something dodgy (eg forged a signature). He is entitled to disclosure by the bank, etstae agent, mortgage company etc as he is a joint owner/joint mortgagor.

    However the real answer is he will never know fully and never achieve a remedy unless and until he goes to see a family lawyer, issues divorce proceedings and issues an application for ancillary relief. The sooner he does so the better as he appears to have a house that has been sold behind his back, and he hasn't a scooby what has happened to the proceeds of sale. If they all get spent before he does anything then the court cannot magic them back so he is at risk of being left with sod all. My advice to him would be to pull his finger out and ask a professional, rather than asking his sisters husband if he could find out from some internet whackos what they all think, and he should do it pretty sharpish too.

    Rather depressingly the police aren't usually interested in marital misbehaviour of this kind either, so even if she has committed some kind of fraud he may find little assistance on that front.

    See a lawyer.
  7. I don't believe he was offered a chance to be bought out, he just stopped paying AFAIK she managed to continue the payments, and subsequant re-mortgage, by herself, albeit interest only.

    He says Bankrupt, although it could be some tyoe of IVA, he's very generic in his vocab and to him specific is "that big ocean with Hawaii in!"

    If there was any action taken against him for non-payments, would he have to have been contacted?

    We know that she's forged his signature before for joint loans, but for reasons unknown he's done nothing about it. His admin is shite and with several girlfirends/abodes later from this one, his papers and details are allez uber die platz

    Appreciate the advice, but he hasn't asked me to do anything. I only found out at 9pm last night (an hour after he did), so he was still in a daze where to start. I just need to point him in the right direction. He's unemployed, pretty skint so is scared this will cost his dearly for any legal advice that may not come to fruition.

    Cheers all for the help so far
  8. walkyrie

    walkyrie Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    Back to the public domain for general advice....

    Get him down the Citizens Advice pronto
    Try and find a local solicitor who'll spare him half an hour for free
    Make lots of loud noises at the mortgage company. It can't be sold without their consent and has been mentioned they're unlikely to want to be involved in a potential fraud.
  9. Cheers Wal, PM sent and thanks.

    I'm gonna call him now and tell him to seek as much legal advice as possible.
  10. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    You could look at this another way - wife is abandoned by cheating, financially incompetent husband who doesn't even pay his wack of a mortgage she can't afford on her own. By dint of scraping and some fast financial moves, coupled with what sounds like having to resort to credit cards to tide her over, she manages to keep her home through a nasty recession and a crashing house market. Finally, after 5 years of hell she manages to offload the place. And now her ex wants a piece of what she's worked for. If anyone needs a lawyer it's her.
  11. Nice try.:)

    Some more details have come to light. It transpires that the credit/store cards were added to the mortgage during their time together, although they were a legacy of her time before they met. The mortgage company confirmed these details this morning. He agreed to add them in when they remortgaged all those years ago. In all the excitement he obviously forgot he took on a stack of her debts. I told you he was an admin vortex.

    The estate agents were surprised he turned up, as she has told them that she is the only name now on the deeds & mortgage, both of which we now know to be untrue.

    The BiL will be receiveing a letter from her Solicitors in the next few days, what is says reamins to be seen.

    I do agree though about his financial incompentancy, and I'm still not exactly sure why he went into involuntary bankruptcy.

    Incidentally has just wants back what he paid in mortgage payments or a similar (modest) lump sum and a divorce. Not too severe I would offer, he did jointly pay the mortgage for several years and extend the house to improve it's resell value after all.
  12. Looks like he did a great job.

  13. I get the feeling he's going to get raped, although she may not come out of this entirely unscathed.
  14. Hence why I'm hesitant to take up my wife's offer of getting him in to re-do our en suite.

  15. It's our feeling too CB.

    It's not uinfeasible that she may have lost her job or that she may be moving abroad. The main issue to him is that she's selling the house without informing him even though he's on the deeds and the mortgage. His non-payments are academic, he still jointly owns the property.