Has communism a future?

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4225346.stm

73% of East Germans believe that Karl Marx's critique of capitalism is still valid, according to a recent poll by news magazine Der Spiegel.
...
Hans-Juergen Schneider, a 49-year-old trained engineer has been unemployed since January 2004. He has sent out 286 job applications since then, without success.

"The market economy can't solve our problems," he says, "big business is just grabbing the profits without accepting any responsibility."
Do you see at least a problem there?
 
#2
"A man is never more truthful than when he acknowledges himself as a liar."
Ah Karl Marxi's maxim,
or should it be the old Catholic Priests saying, Give a me a child and I'll return you a brainwashed for life TW@T.
Too many Ost Germans long for the life where some one did the thinking for them and when they had nothing where told they where well off. Look at N Korea all those luvly girls on TV this week wetting themselves over photos of Kim il Whoever.
Now they have joined the capitalist rat race and will have to get on with life.
john
 
#3
Yes, communism is crap and consists of some fat men with some dodgy tashes kicking random people they've dragged off the street to death (after wrapping them in a proletarian rug to save their 13th century Persian rug from getting blood on it), then taking their chauffeur driven limos down the private 'Party Only' lanes of the otherwise empty streets of the capital city to the 'Party Only' supermarket to buy American cigarettes and German home appliances, while 99% of the population queue for three weeks outside a shop that is reminiscent of the little Naafi on Candahar Bks, Tidworh (although probably with more stock) to buy a loaf of bread and some turnip soup
 
G

Goku

Guest
#4
Communism is a good concept but it’s just not a practicable form of government.
Communism has only ever worked on Star Trek which is nothing but fantasy, the reality is that communism has failed on every attempt.
It’s human nature to want to be better off than the next guy, this makes us all susceptible to greed, selfishness, and corruption.
This is why communism fails, it’s core beliefs go against human nature. You only need to look as far as China or Russia to see exactly what is wrong with communism. Communism creates a bigger divide between the rich and poor than capitalism ever could, and this is down to the corruption and greed of the communist leaders.
Why do you think communist nations all tend to outlaw other political parties? Could it be because they know that once people have truly experienced communism they wouldn’t want to live with it?
 
#5
Communism is a great theory but the human factor caused it to fail

From my experience in post communist countries, Albania and Russia being just 2 I've seen how it failed. there seems to be no reward for being successful at what you do, a doctor and a road sweeper were paid almost the same amount so there is no incentive to improve standards when at the end of the day, whatever you do gets you the same basic privilages. Also the systems were wide open to corruption as a result of the lethargy caused by the system. if you need something in a hurry you had (and still do!) to grease the right palms to get what you need done.
 
#6
The problem is a cultural one: generations of command economics and rampant statism. These East Germans are like Japanese soldiers stranded on pacific islands in the 1970's, refusing to accept it's all over.

Communism is vile and inevitable leads to dictatorship. Period.

V!
 
#7
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. I think that just about sums it up.
 
#8
It seems that much of the complaints directed at communism should really be directed at authoritarianism.
 
#9
The communist project envisions a world in which:

** The government owns the media of mass communication.

** The government is the only employer or the only economically significant employer.

** The government decides what is produced and in what quantities.

** The citizens possess and use various types of property, but only at the sufferance of the government.

** The activities of those entrusted with the management of enterprises are not regulated by the necessity of accruing profits and avoiding losses.

** No one has any selfish incentive to take care of anything because no one owns anything.

Therefore, communism and authoritarianism go together like dung and flies.
 
#10
In Workers' Paradise Lost, by Eugene Lyons, it is recounted that a French communist visited the offices of Gosplan, the central economic planning directorate of the USSR.

This Frenchman was astonished to see an army of clerical workers poring over western industrial catalogs and price lists and attempting to translate the prices into ruble terms. They were relying on the capitalist west to tell them the relative values of commodities. They did not, in obedience to Marx, attempt to assign values to commodities on the basis of their labor content.

Double entry bookkeeping makes it possible to compare the value of what an enterprise consumes with the value of what that enterprise produces.

The accountant is able to assign these values only because there exists a market which assigns prices to goods and services. The prices constantly change because the market value men attach to economic goods changes according to technological improvements, changing tastes, changes in the abundance of raw materials, etc.

If goods and services were not exchanged, in the pursuit of pecuniary profit, by those who own them, it would be impossible for the managers of an enterprise to know whether they were consuming more value than they were creating. The orderly accumulation of capital which characterizes a free economy would stop and would be replaced by its destruction and general destitution.

The essence of communism is the elimination of any market in factors of production because communism consists of the concentration of all factors of production in the hands of a single owner, the state.

For a detailed exposition of the impossibility of rational economic calculation in a socialist world, may I commend to your attention Economic Calculation In The Socialist Commonwealth by Ludwig von Mises.

http://www.mises.org/econcalc.asp
 
#11
Marxism is alive and well, as it is used as an analytical tool of the social sciences in universities throughout Europe.

Hmm...that says it all really! :twisted:
 
#12
so what is the answer - pure capitalism.

hasn't anyone seen what happens in a country where money rules everything. cue New Orleans in a capitalist country - did the system work? I think not.
 
#14
so what is the answer - pure capitalism.

hasn't anyone seen what happens in a country where money rules everything. cue New Orleans in a capitalist country - did the system work? I think not.
The people queuing for bread in Moscow and the people who died of starvation in China during the Cultural Revolution had one thing in common.

They were not OBESE like the people I saw on TV trying to wade out of the swamp in Louisiana!! How the f**k can you compare the USA to the USSR? At least the good ol' US of A has admitted it's it sins to the world! Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the country, but the USA has never killed 27 million of it's own population as Stalin did! Apologies if my figures are wrong but what the f**k are a couple of million between dictators!!!
 
#15
KGB_resident said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4225346.stm

73% of East Germans believe that Karl Marx's critique of capitalism is still valid, according to a recent poll by news magazine Der Spiegel.
...
Hans-Juergen Schneider, a 49-year-old trained engineer has been unemployed since January 2004. He has sent out 286 job applications since then, without success.

"The market economy can't solve our problems," he says, "big business is just grabbing the profits without accepting any responsibility."
Do you see at least a problem there?
I lived in Germany for ten years. East Germans were told it would all be easy after Germans call the "Wende", the Turning Point. Their useless currency was exchanged one for one with the Deutschmark, billions (or was it trillions) of dollars were pumped into their economy.

The result: stagnation, unemployment, racism, social strife and corruption.

East Germans today - as a society! - are lazy and without initiative. They grew up in a state that did the thinking for them. Their kids grew up with parents who didn't know how to think.

Now the reality has hit them, and they've turned back to communism, even fascism. The relevant ideological parties have made large, steady gains since 1991.

They've turned from capitalism because they can't handle it. They need someone to start the business for them, to give them a plan, to tell them their wage and - let's be blunt - to do the work.

So Sergey, I'm afraid East Germany is a very bad example. The East Germans are practicing what's called "post hoc ergo propter hoc", or 'after this, therefore because of this'. In other words, they've realised how shit their lives are since they abandoned communism (which they were of course forbidden to criticise when it existed), so they blame it on capitalism instead of their self-perpetuated problems and the culture that evolved under communist rule.

It's a typical human trait exhibit globally. See Bill Cosby's rants or Islamic fundamentalism.

Or see Hurricane Katrina: Where there's failure, someone else needs to be blamed.
 
#16
Dear cheesypoptart!

It's a very interesting replay. So you think that Communis infected East Germans and turned normally hard-working Germans into a lazy crowd. I rather agree with you. Adaptation to realities of capitalism to those who spent significant part of their lives under communist rule is painful and difficult process. But is it the only cause? I doubt.

Let regard a typical situation. Small town, chemical plant, West German firm buy it for 6p and ... closes it to remove a competitor to its other factories. Suppose that you are active, inventive inhabitant of the town. Have you any option?

Btw, some western firms 'invested' in Russian plants, baught them with only one purpose - to close them. In Russia this problem was fixed (at least in many cases) but in Germany it is a very hard thing.
 
#17
Communism has only ever worked on Star Trek which is nothing but fantasy, the reality is that communism has failed on every attempt.
What do you mean fantasy? are you sure it isn't real? my life is in ruins.
 
#18
KGB_resident wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4225346.stm

Quote:
73% of East Germans believe that Karl Marx's critique of capitalism is still valid, according to a recent poll by news magazine Der Spiegel.
...
Hans-Juergen Schneider, a 49-year-old trained engineer has been unemployed since January 2004. He has sent out 286 job applications since then, without success.

"The market economy can't solve our problems," he says, "big business is just grabbing the profits without accepting any responsibility."

Do you see at least a problem there?

Yep,cue one short man with a toothbrush moustache? same problem,same people,same country.

Star Trek fantasy-I always thought I was watching reality T.V!!
 
#19
Quote:
73% of East Germans believe that Karl Marx's critique of capitalism is still valid, according to a recent poll by news magazine Der Spiegel.
Marx's views on capitalism have to be seperated from communism. They are different things - Marx's class-based analysis of economics sits on the bookshelves of economists alongside The Wealth of Nations and other weighty tomes.

Marxist views on the inevitability of class struggle are perhaps discredited but his economic analysis is used as a theoretical framework for economists, historians etc.

My view is that the term "capitalism" is a very loose term for a system common to most of humanity that has evolved over thousands of years and is based on the exchange of goods or services of varying values derived from the demand for the goods and services. Anything that is a radical departure from this will fail.
 
#20
Not_Whistlin_Dixie said:
The communist project envisions a world in which:

** The government owns the media of mass communication.

** The government is the only employer or the only economically significant employer.

** The government decides what is produced and in what quantities.

** The citizens possess and use various types of property, but only at the sufferance of the government.

** The activities of those entrusted with the management of enterprises are not regulated by the necessity of accruing profits and avoiding losses.

** No one has any selfish incentive to take care of anything because no one owns anything.

Therefore, communism and authoritarianism go together like dung and flies.
Good summary of Britain under new Labour! :D
 

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