Harrier Force

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Goatman, Oct 22, 2004.

  1. Crab Air fly pricier ac

  2. Naval NCOs would steal the ac and sell it to by rum

  3. In the Army, only NCOs can navigate


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  1. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    yeah, I know it's not Rotary Wing but the attached may be of interest to some here who don't access DefenceNet:

    Navy Harrier Force Settles into New Home

    The Dark Blues here rub shoulders with Light Blue colleagues at the home of the Joint Force Harrier, RAF Wittering and sister base Cottesmore, up in the hills around Stamford.

    Lt. Cdr. Kev Seymour goes through checks in the Harrier cockpit
    Royal Navy officer Lt Cdr Kev Seymour lands his Harrier safely on the deck alongside the familiar ski ramp as Lt Iain Ritchie, in the Meteorology Office, monitors the weather. Elsewhere, in the hangar, AEMs Steve Walker and Paul Stocks carry out maintenance on Harrier jet engines.
    A typical Dark Blue scenario – but miles from the sea, and not even in a stone frigate.

    For the Dark Blues here rub shoulders with Light Blue colleagues at home of the Joint Force Harrier, RAF Wittering and sister base Cottesmore, up in the hills around Stamford.

    The new set-up is by no means a Navy enclave surrounded by an overwhelming take-over force. As far as the Naval contingent is concerned, ‘joint’ means just that – RN and RAF work and play side by side. The colours mingle, but neither fades nor darkens.

    The white shirts and dark uniforms of the Navy started to arrive at the RAF’s bases in Cambridgeshire and Rutland two years ago, in preparation for the planned move of the three Naval Air Squadrons and their aircraft.

    However, around the same time the decision was taken that the Sea Harrier FA2 fleet was to retire early, and all RN and RAF Harrier pilots and engineers were to unite in an upgraded all-Harrier-GR9 force by 2007. So for the Navy it is not only a new base, but a new aircraft – the ground-attack Harrier in place of the interceptor Sea Harrier.
    Lt Cdr Kev Seymour heads up the Naval contingent at the Operational Conversion Unit – 20 Squadron in RAF eyes, the FA2 899 Naval Air Squadron in Navy parlance. His experience of flying AV8s – the American version of the Harrier GR7 – in the United States made him among the first to report to Wittering in the summer of 2002.

    Described frankly as “six months of pain”, Kev completed the various courses to make him a Qualified Warfare Instructor in the Harrier GR7, ready to train the next intake of Naval fliers, whether the new pilots tackling the reality of the Harrier for the first time, or the cross-overs going from fighter to bomber, forging the familiarities of the unfamiliar.

    Cross-over pilot Lt Rob Fenwick said that similarities between the aircraft did not make life any easier:

    “It’s a double-edged sword. They are similar but different. In many ways it is a completely different aircraft, although still a Harrier.”

    Kev Seymour added:

    “The Navy has a lot to learn about operating strike aircraft. We used to do it – look at the Buccaneer, among others. We have got to relearn Navy lessons.”

    RAF Wittering’s station commander, Grp Capt Mike Jenkins, reinforced the point:

    “The difficulty is making sure people don’t view this as something new and out of the blue. It’s nothing really new. The Air Force and Navy have been operating together throughout their history. I flew with the Navy during the Falklands Campaign. It’s just been dressed up in a new package – only a turning of the wheel.”

    Lt. Cdr. Kev Seymour checks his Harrier's airframe
    Normally there are around 16 pilots under training at Wittering, split into groups of four. At the moment there is one RN pilot to three RAF, but by March next year these numbers are expected to equalise.

    Grp Capt Jenkins said:

    “It takes three years to ensure that the right personnel are at the right levels to achieve true Naval squadrons. We can’t allow RN air squadrons to be predominantly manned in key roles by Air Force personnel. It is essential to maintain the Fleet Air Arm ethos that these are predominantly Naval squadrons.”

    Kev Seymour sees the convergence of the two Services as a positive change:

    “It’s brought a lot of new people into fast jet – fresh thoughts and fresh faces. Most of the guys in 800 Squadron knew that they were coming up here – in fact they wanted to come up here.

    “Yes, it’s a joint force, but we are still in the Navy, just working in a joint environment. It’s in transition at the moment. By 2006, once the two Naval squadrons are up the road at Cottesmore, it should be no different to Yeovilton. Working with the RAF is not new for us, this is more a final convergence.”

    There are some differences between the methods of the two Services, as Kev explained:

    “The Royal Navy traditionally do not train their engineers on the front line. When a squadron deploys at sea, they need a fully-manned deployable unit. The RAF are used to completing some of their training at the squadrons.

    “The ‘schoolhouse’ concept has been brought in, where the Air Force looks at the Navy and adopts some of our policies, so training down here is coming some way towards the Naval system.

    “We’re coming together as we learn to work with each other. So we’re also looking at our guys. We’re giving our trainees more responsibility earlier, so that they become equivalent to their RAF colleagues.”

    CPO Phillip Spencer, one of the senior rates leading the technical work at RAF Wittering, said:

    “The biggest problem is that we have two distinctly different Services who do things differently. I came up here 15 months ago to start to cross these bridges.”

    PO Nicky Howse added:

    “The trade structures are very different between us and the RAF. Bridging that was very difficult when we first got up here.”

    RAF counterparts have traditionally been focused on a single trade. and are usually older, whereas the Navy’s rates have a broader skill base. However, both Services are looking at their aircraft trades and reducing differences between the two.

    Phillip Spencer said:

    “This is one of the best examples of a joint service environment.”

    Nicky Howse added:

    “It works well here. It’s accepted that we have a lot we can learn from the RAF, and they have a lot to learn from us. Things are always difficult in the transition stage – but it’s all right up here now, so things can only get better.”

    Cpl. Rob Sterland and LAEA Paul Power in the 20 Squadron Hanger
    AEMs Steve Walker and Paul Stocks work in the Harrier Propulsion hangar, carrying out scheduled servicing and maintenance – the only two Navy workers, but dressed in RAF green overalls.

    But Steve pointed at his Royal Navy shoulder flash:

    “I’ve still got these. They know we’re Navy. In our blue overalls there’s still a barrier between us and them.”

    Paul added:

    “But we feel part of the team, all in matching gear. We don’t stand out."

    They pointed out that on board ship their Air Force equivalents wear the dark blue rig of the Royal Navy.

    Paul said:

    “They’ve had to do it for years now. We should be seen to take an active role in the changes too.”

    The two see no problems with the move of the Harrier squadrons up to the Midlands. For the pair, with homes in Manchester and Lancashire, the move only brings advantage – a better location, good amenities and new challenges. The officers remain aware that there is more to be honed than just Harrier skills. Kev Seymour said:

    “The big thing we had to get right is the divisional system here. The people here should get what they need, with all the facilities, all the administration they require.”

    The first steps have been taken with a Waterfront Manning Office set up in its own block at RAF Wittering. It currently cares for about 160 personnel split between the two sites, but this will rise to some 500 once the move is completed in 2007.

    At Joint Force Harrier the Navy and RAF will work side by side, a truly joint unit with aviation staff split 50:50 between the Services. Once the squadrons move up to their new home at Cottesmore, 800 and 801 NAS will retain a majority of Naval personnel, while their RAF counterparts in 1 and 4 Squadrons maintain a predominant – but not exclusive – light blue character.

    An equal balance will reign at the Operational Conversion Unit at RAF Wittering. And Naval identity will not fade away in this new joint force. At Wittering, CPO Nick Wyld, the Station Fire Officer, sits beneath a shirt given to him by his RAF-RN firefighting squad. Carefully stitched together, the shirt – half Naval white, half RAF blue – hangs on the wall, a joke but also a symbol of what joint means.

    He sees the addition of another air base a useful tool in the RN’s firefighting kit, giving Naval airmen vital experience for their firefighting function.

    But certain divisions will always remain between the two Services. Nick Wyld sits and proudly strokes his Naval sideburns, an adornment that regulations forbid a RAF serviceman. Naval regulations forbid the handlebar moustache, in case anyone was tempted …

    Couple of years ago, the first Royal Marine fixed wing aviator for a generation joined the Harrier Force. Dunno whether he's still flying.

    I take it fast jets are barred to AAC pilots ?

    Le Chevre - groundborn when not afloat. :roll:
  2. The RAF and RN exclusively employ commissioned aircrew because back in the day both arms were involved in dropping nuclear weapons from manned aircraft. Such items were deemed to require a commissioned officer to deploy and rather than have two classes of aircrew they took the easiest option, that is to commission everyone.

    (Or so I have been assured by light blue colleagues in the past.)

    Was that answer too sensible ?
  3. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Nope - sounds about par for the course. Back in the day, both the RAF and the Navy found Sgt pilots (for Navy read PO aircrew) perfectly acceptable to crew all sorts of ac.

    Current policy always seemed a bit classist and daft to me but there it is.

    Le Chevre :roll:
  4. I've never seen the reason to restrict flying duties to Officers. AAC Islander pilots are all OR's and they operate to the same flying rules as RAF transport types.

    The AAC toyed with the idea when Apache was coming in but quickly realised that the sheer numbers made it impractical, hence the bulk of Army Pilots being NCOs.
  5. Incorrect - the RAF do employ NCO aircrew it's just that they give them Flt Lt stripes and let them live in the Offrs' Mess.
  6. Most, if not all, of the tactical nukes, including the anti-sub ones, were provided by the US. I believe it was US policy that pilots and navigators had to be commissioned, as they were the aircrew trades involved in the fail-safe procedures - but I don't think our people had any very different ideas.

    NCOs and WOs continued to fly as pilots in the RAF until (I think) about 30 years ago, latterly almost exclusively on helos.
  7. Apparently the Crabs are under some pressure to revert Kev and his mates to NCO status. It would seem that the arse has finally fallen out of the “Nuclear” argument. However, it goes without saying that they will somehow be able to squirm out of the audit and turn the argument around to the Army again…. I also note that the Marine Rupertification program has gone through without much comment?
  8. Actually, I find I'm talking poop here. Most aircrew are commissioned, but you do still find NCO loadies and the like. Presumably it's trades that were directly involved in hoofing nukes out that have to be all graduates of Sleaford Tech.
  9. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    He was at Wittering until a couple of months ago.