Haredi Jews Lose Draft Deferments

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by RP578, Feb 27, 2012.

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  1. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Israel's ultra-orthodox Jews have a duty to serve their country | Seth Freedman | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    The article is an opinion piece by Seth Freedman who isn't the IDF's biggest fan under normal circumstances. This seems to be a venting about the many privileges afforded to the Ultra-Orthodox community in Israel, a grievance which many Israelis appear to share, as much as sticking up for the concept of Universal Military Service.

    Revealing too, is the degree to which the Haredis exert political clout despite their minority status. Makes you wonder if this is a factor in the impasse in peace negotiations with the Palestinians.
  2. There are some highly amusing vids on Youtube showing these nutjobs ranting at anyone entering "their" suburbs in what might be considered normal clothing by the non-mental.

    I was going to call them the Jewish Hammas, but Hammas at least have the cojones to get bombed up now and again (no pun intended).
  3. This is bollocks, Haredis being conscripted will make sod all difference to the IDFs effectiveness, it is big enough already and adding a bunch of right wing religious nutters is hardly a force multiplier.
  4. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    Perhaps not, but at least if it's their sons having to do the fighting and dying they might be a little less belligerent
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  5. it worked with the knights templar, and the SS if you count national socialism as their religion.
  6. I suspect that the reverse is the case, the IDF are rather good at ensuring the other side does the dying. The IDF's day to day job is policing the Pals, I can't think of a demographic less suitable to do that apart from the Pals themselves.
  7. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    Isnt it funny how Israel tears up the liberals in this country? They want to support the jews right to a homeland but the moment they get all storm trooper with the naughty neighbours they start to cry into their free trade coffee and picket the Issy embassy!
    Israel I dearly love, never been there though I may one day, it has the ability to infuriate and please in so many ways all at once and is a constant source of amusement and military information on how to vapourise thine enemies.
    I live in hope that such a smiting may fall upon the head of our middle east peace envoy and his wife!
    • Like Like x 2
  8. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Alib, I think you've spectacularly missed the point of the article and the wider sentiments that it reflects. No one is proposing that lack of conscript Haredis is denuding the IDF's capabilities. It's more a case of the blatant unfairness of a community which is sheltered by the sacrifice of others; drawing privilege (in form of draft deferments, financial subsidies etc.) whilst sharing little of the burden.

    The conscription debate is the most potent of resentments that the wider Israeli society seems to have against the Haredis. Perhaps because of the huge part it plays in the national life. Conscription in Israel has long been more than just about a means of drawing manpower.
    • Like Like x 4
  9. ehwhat

    ehwhat Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    Unlike Hamas, حركة المقاومة الاسلامية,and their charter (The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988), the Haredi aren't calling for a universal Jewish version of the Caliphate. Nor have they enshrined calls for genocide and vilification against an entire people no matter where they are found in the world. There isn't any real similarity or correlation.

    That said, the Haredi do appear to be nutters to most people, including to some extent me.

    More to the point, the concept of deferment for religious reasons is in use by many countries that require military conscription. The difference is that they are rarely blanket deferments and normally require people to explain themselves to a hearings board with the possibility of being denied and forced to serve. The Haredi have been able to finesse the Israeli system practically since its inception and win entitlements. This does not sit well in a society that sees military service as a social integrator and civic obligation. Its important to note that some Haredi do choose to serve in some Israeli military units.

    Calls for the removal of the entitlements, not just the deferment one, have been ongoing for quite some time.

    Israel is a parliamentary democracy, a very messy one at that. Small parties are able to exert terrific influence due to the constant need for coalitions. At any given moment, on practically any given topic, there is a tremendous pressure to fragment. As an outside observer trying to make sense out of it all, I find it remarkable that they get anything done.

    As for the peace process, the Haredi are part of the mix as is everyone else. The stupidity isn't confined to one group or nation but spread evenly throughout all the participants.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    As fair a comment as ever there was!
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Granted it was a somewhat flippant comparison to make, but these Haredi will no doubt be fully commited to building settlements on disputed territory wherever they can. Something their old enemy referred to as Lebensraum I believe.
  12. ehwhat

    ehwhat Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    Actually, quite a large number of Haredi do not seek to build settlements. There is a political movement that does, but they are inclusive of many other elements as well. It isn't really an Haredi centric activity.

    Settlements may include urban suburbs, the more easily recognized block settlements, frontier villages and outposts. The group(s) and reasoning behind each one's foundation is often quite varied both ideologically and tactically.

    Its just my opinion, but there is no service provided by over-simplification.

    Should I be invoking Godwin's Law or can we just ignore that and carry on?
  13. MOSES did not make-form or suggest ZIONISM, nor did the "Jews" God.

    The founding father of Zionism was, Adolf Hitler.

  14. DING!!!! DING!!! We have a Kosher winner!

    Haradi Jews, willing to fight to the very last drop of other peoples blood.
  15. Dave BG had to inshrine their exempt status in order to ensure the birth of the state. Many of them think the existence of the state is blashomous and the IDF are more concerned about entering their areas than some of the more shooty places in SU/JD. If they see you during shabbat in a wagon many of them will have a go. They are armed often with the same mk. of m16 as you and they don't always give toss about the consequences of their actions as they are fanatics. They are a cult and as bad as any muslim repressive sect. Toms would be displeased if a bus full of angry fundamentalists were forced to turn up at your camp because a change in the law compelled them to do so. It is very different from getting a bus load of stroppy 18 year old girls with luggage full of straighteners and hair products every year. They mostly turn out to be proud and capable soldiers and many later officers. I do not think this would be the case with these bastards.

    PS yes I agree re; coalitions and minority power. Israel is the best argument against PR around. I still love her though.
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