Handguns in British Service

[Onetap]

This is the big one that even the Navy wouldn't touch.

View attachment 531566 Ex-wikipedia.

The captain in charge of tests of the Mars at the Naval Gunnery School in 1902 observed, "No one who fired once with the pistol wished to shoot it again". Shooting the Mars pistol was described as "singularly unpleasant and alarming".

Most impressive, mostly for the wrong reasons, with an unexpected appearance of an Armalite-type lock that most people (well Americans mostly) seem to think was invented 50 years later.

Delete: Pistol, Insert: Weapon, and Delete: all reference to 'Cavalry' - you then have a nutshell summary for the American attitudes that gave the world 7.62mm and wound up with 5.56mm (itself a sub-optimum combat calibre) being NATO standard to this day.

My theory is that it's an inherent effect of appointing commanders who are old geezers, still convinced that the kit from 'their day' is still the cutting edge. A certain rifle comes to mind. Or Adolf's fixation on WW1-era SMG-armed storm troopers and his initial opposition to the Stg-44 development.

 

[Bodenplatte]

I'm pretty sure reloading on horseback would feature for some armies. Can't remember where I picked that up, mighta been around the Mauser as carried by the young WSC.

Any Fule kno you can't fumble single rounds into an open revolver and ride da pony at the same time.

Reloading a C96 Mauser is a two handed job, and doesn't confer any advantage over a Webley top break ejector, especially if a speedloader is used.

 

[Goldbricker]

Most impressive, mostly for the wrong reasons, with an unexpected appearance of an Armalite-type lock that most people (well Americans mostly) seem to think was invented 50 years later.

My theory is that it's an inherent effect of appointing commanders who are old geezers, still convinced that the kit from 'their day' is still the cutting edge. A certain rifle comes to mind. Or Adolf's fixation on WW1-era SMG-armed storm troopers and his initial opposition to the Stg-44 development.

The Dreyse locking system? or the Mannlicher System?

 

[Goldbricker]

Reloading a C96 Mauser is a two handed job, and doesn't confer any advantage over a Webley top break ejector, especially if a speedloader is used.

Except for those 4 more cartridges the C96 has as opposed to the Webley before needing to reload

 

[Goldbricker]

Delete: Pistol, Insert: Weapon, and Delete: all reference to 'Cavalry' - you then have a nutshell summary for the American attitudes that gave the world 7.62mm and wound up with 5.56mm (itself a sub-optimum combat calibre) being NATO standard to this day.

Well of course we did

for one thing we provided the BULK of NATO's small arms in the early days

M1 Garand's used by the USA, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, France, West Germany, Greece, Turkey, Netherlands, Portugal..... hell even the SAFN came in .30

The Browning .30 was almost universal as a AFV CoAx even in the UK until the 60's

Ferret, Saladin, Saracen, Centurion, Conqueror


Far easier to use the shortened .30US then to change bolts, links, clips and mags to suit and the Ammo could be remanufactured with new cases

 

[Onetap]

The Dreyse locking system? or the Mannlicher System?

It resembles the Mannlicher system most (I had to Google that); most bolt-action rifles had some variation on a lugged rotating bolt.
The major difference is that the Mars bolt seems to lock onto a barrel extension ( the star chamber, I think you folk call it) rather than onto recesses in the receiver.
It's of no relevance, except to those that think Mr Stoner invented that arrangement.

 

[Goldbricker]

It resembles the Mannlicher system most (I had to Google that); most bolt-action rifles had some variation on a lugged rotating bolt.
The major difference is that the Mars bolt seems to lock onto a barrel extension ( the star chamber, I think you folk call it) rather than onto recesses in the receiver.
It's of no relevance, except to those that think Mr Stoner invented that arrangement.

AR-15/M16/M4/C8 barrel extension

 

[terminal]

AR-15/M16/M4/C8 barrel extension

View attachment 534434

Fosbery 1891 slide action shotgun bolt and barrel extension. The lugs were likely rounded for greater strength as they would create less of a stress concentration than squared-off lugs. Fosbery is often known these days as the inventor of an automatic revolver, but his main contribution to firearms design was actually the very successful "paradox" rifling using in shotguns to fire rifled slugs.

British Fosbery pump-action shotgun with ‘Stoner’ bolt – Armament Research Services

armamentresearch.com

 

[Onetap]

AR-15/M16/M4/C8 barrel extension

View attachment 534434

Mars pistol version of the same, although machined out of the end of the barrel.

 

[Onetap]

There were several firearms in the late19th/early 20th century that used a similar design of bolt.

PS Apologies for the diversion, I was just surprised to see that thing on an1890s pistol.

 

[Taffwob]

Reloading a C96 Mauser is a two handed job, and doesn't confer any advantage over a Webley top break ejector, especially if a speedloader is used.

Strewth!
Even if I was out of ammo I could bludgeon him to death with the Webley before he finished faffing about like that.

I'm guessing he's not too familiar with this pistol to be fair. A more practised hand would be more slick.
In fact i don't believe he's very familiar with any real firearm usage by the way he's waving that around whilst carrying out a load.

 

[Bodenplatte]

Strewth!
Even if I was out of ammo I could bludgeon him to death with the Webley before he finished faffing about like that.

I'm guessing he's not too familiar with this pistol to be fair. A more practised hand would be more slick.
In fact i don't believe he's very familiar with any real firearm usage by the way he's waving that around whilst carrying out a load.

To be fair, under normal conditions you'd have several stripper clips already loaded.
If you watch the closing credits at about 1:34 you'll see that the maker states that the gun is only a model, so make of that what you will.
The cartridges don't look like 7.63x25 Mauser either

 

[Goldbricker]

Strewth!
Even if I was out of ammo I could bludgeon him to death with the Webley before he finished faffing about like that.

I'm guessing he's not too familiar with this pistol to be fair. A more practised hand would be more slick.
In fact i don't believe he's very familiar with any real firearm usage by the way he's waving that around whilst carrying out a load.

 

[Bodenplatte]

Fosbery 1891 slide action shotgun bolt and barrel extension. The lugs were likely rounded for greater strength as they would create less of a stress concentration than squared-off lugs. Fosbery is often known these days as the inventor of an automatic revolver, but his main contribution to firearms design was actually the very successful "paradox" rifling using in shotguns to fire rifled slugs.

The point of Fosbery's Paradox guns was that the slug did not have to be rifled.

 

[Taffwob]

The box magazine arrangement seems a bit more of an improvement for loading, as you might expect, but going gull auto seems an efficient means to turn live rounds into empty cases and little else.
Unless you have the muzzle in their belt buckle.

 

[Themanwho]

The box magazine arrangement seems a bit more of an improvement for loading, as you might expect, but going gull auto seems an efficient means to turn live rounds into empty cases and little else.
Unless you have the muzzle in their belt buckle.

More controllable with the stock fitted. Looking at the film it seems more controllable than the Beretta 93(?), and somewhat similar to an Ingram M10. It was designed for stormtroopers clearing trenches IIRC, so belt buckle isn't far off its intended range

 

[tgo]

Interesting, I knew there was an optional shoulder stock, didn't know you could have a second broom handle hidden in said stock though.

If the auto version is select fire, I'd have thought it would be the one to go for, as it has a box mag with a bigger capacity and all. Bin the stock and just use it as a larger capacity semi auto pistol.

 

[Mölders 1]

On the subject of the Mauser C/96.......

Would this set up have been much use against attacking enemy Aircraft In WW-1?

 

[4(T)]

On the subject of the Mauser C/96.......

Would this set up have been much use against attacking enemy Aircraft In WW-1?
View attachment 534649

Given the dead slow speed of early WW1 aircraft, I imagine it was possible to manoeuvre to within almost touching distance and let rip with something like this. 100? rnds of relatively high velocity ammo, 10-20m? range and only one needs to hit the opposing pilot.

 

[terminal]

The point of Fosbery's Paradox guns was that the slug did not have to be rifled.

That's what I was trying to say. I was trying to differentiate between slugs for Paradox guns and ones that used drag.

There is by the way at least one recently designed gun in Russia that uses Paradox rifling to get around the peculiarities of Russian firearms laws and allow a rifle to be bought on a shotgun license.

Kalashnikov TR9 Paradox carbine / shotgun (Russia) - Modern Firearms

Kalashnikov TR9 Paradox carbine (‘smoothbore’ gun) is one of those cases when severity or lack of logic in firearm laws is circumvented by ingenuity and use of various loopholes. In particular, Russian gun laws permit rifle ownership only for those who previously legally owned shotgun for at...

modernfirearms.net