Hand to Hand Combat

#1
Its just been a thought thats pressing me today, but why isn't there a great emphasis on teaching Hand to Hand combat in the British Army?

It may be apparent that it rarely comes down to having to resort to bare hands, but surely it would be great Phys and a brilliant skill for all Infantry trade blokes?

I've noticed the US Rangers (I know they are SPEZZHUL FARCES!) emphasise it aswell as the US Marines, and what about all the IDF in Krav Maga?

Is it just Politicians are to afraid of squaddies on the lash beating students and coppers to a pulp?
 
#2
I used to do karate untill I discovered Smith&Wesson
 
#3
Ive always wondered why HM Forces dont do this more. Also HM Forces (Army) never seem to get issued 2nd wpns..All US Inf etc get a rifle and a pistol.....
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Its more preferable (not to mention practical) to teach people to kill at distance than worry about all this chinese chop sockey close up boll ocks.

Unless of course we are talking about the underwater knife fighting THEM do. Which rules.
 
#5
frigate23 said:
Its just been a thought thats pressing me today, but why isn't there a great emphasis on teaching Hand to Hand combat in the British Army?

It may be apparent that it rarely comes down to having to resort to bare hands, but surely it would be great Phys and a brilliant skill for all Infantry trade blokes?

I've noticed the US Rangers (I know they are SPEZZHUL FARCES!) emphasise it aswell as the US Marines, and what about all the IDF in Krav Maga?

Is it just Politicians are to afraid of squaddies on the lash beating students and coppers to a pulp?
Oh dear... :roll:

Couple of points: the US Rangers are NOT Special Forces. For a start in the US Army, Special Forces refer to one specific unit. The rest - Delta, ISA etc - are referred to as Special Operations Units.

US Rangers are "elite Infantry" and do recieve some training in Jap-slapping...although it is worth noting that one ex-Ranger who claimed that his Ranger training was the "Most efficient form of hand-to-hand combat" was knocked out in 10 seconds when he competed in his first(and last!) UFC fight. :twisted:

The average Infantry soldier probably has very little need for Unarmed Combat training. That's why it's only taught to specialist units like CP Teams, SF etc.
 
#6
Just a quick thought, in my experience most people only learn enough to get themselves in trouble, unless your doing it day in day out it's hard to make into your natural style of fighting.
E.g. Kids who have been boxing 2 weeks have learnt the very basics, square up in a street fight....and promptly get bottled because they're not quite ready.
 
#7
Surely if you've run out of ammunition, or can't shoot for whatever other reason, bayonet fighting is going to be more effective than Tai Chi or whatever else? And a lot more effective psychologically...

As for 'why no pistols?', apparently pistols as a 2nd weapon hardly ever get used by infanteers. I'm sure some jobs like aircrew, RMP CP, SF, tankies maybe, have use of them, but for an infanteer you're surely better off carrying more ammo than a pistol?
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#8
civi-in-green said:
Ive always wondered why HM Forces dont do this more. Also HM Forces (Army) never seem to get issued 2nd wpns..All US Inf etc get a rifle and a pistol.....
Check this

Op Herrick Jan 2009

Observe what is attached to (Real)Marine sniper's leg.


I remember VERY early on ranges being told that the pistol was the most dangerous weapon in the Service......because it is so easy to shoot someone you didn't mean to - usually an oppo or part of your own anatomy, and is the cause of more accidents than anything else........UKFOR has a healthy/odd (?) disdain for the utility of pistols ( and in some units, only Officers/SNCOs ever get any range time with one).

Gun culture in U.S means ORs more likely to OWN their own any way!


Don Cabra
 
#9
civi-in-green said:
Ive always wondered why HM Forces dont do this more. Also HM Forces (Army) never seem to get issued 2nd wpns..All US Inf etc get a rifle and a pistol.....
Really? Please tell me where you got that information from, was it Counterstrike or CoD?
 
#10
in my time nearly all self inflicted NDs were with pistols
 
#11
frigate23 said:
Its just been a thought thats pressing me today, but why isn't there a great emphasis on teaching Hand to Hand combat in the British Army?

It may be apparent that it rarely comes down to having to resort to bare hands, but surely it would be great Phys and a brilliant skill for all Infantry trade blokes?

I've noticed the US Rangers (I know they are SPEZZHUL FARCES!) emphasise it aswell as the US Marines, and what about all the IDF in Krav Maga?

Is it just Politicians are to afraid of squaddies on the lash beating students and coppers to a pulp?
Frankly, I think you're talked sh1te.
 
#13
The Public Safety and Public Order instructors course teaches restraint and other techniques to stop bad people doing badness - It is a requirement for each unit to have at least one instructor on the books. I think unarmed combat isn't taught because generally you'll have something to hand to poke/gouge/beat etc with rather than trying to unleash vulcan neck grips.
 
#15
I find that a steely gaze coupled with a dash of panache does the trick with Johnnie Foreigner.
 
#16
Goatman said:
Check this

Op Herrick Jan 2009

Observe what is attached to (Real)Marine sniper's leg.
I don't think the guy holding the sniper rifle is Royal. I think it is possibly ATO.

There is no Royal Marines Commando shoulder flash or 3 Cdo Bde TRF.

Also look at the side of the day sack and you will see a piece of equipment called a HD6 which AFAIK is only used by ATO in theatre.

Also look at what is happening in the picture. Are they looking for the enemy? Unlikely that a sniper would expose themselves like that.

I would suggest that there is an area that needs clearing and ATO is using the Sniper rifle for observation prior to a manual approach and its possible that the fella that is being used as a leaning post is guiding ATO onto the suspect area.

Clearly this is all best guess and I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows the real story behind the picture.
 
#17
dingerr said:
Goatman said:
Check this

Op Herrick Jan 2009

Observe what is attached to (Real)Marine sniper's leg.
I don't think the guy holding the sniper rifle is Royal. I think it is possibly ATO.

There is no Royal Marines Commando shoulder flash or 3 Cdo Bde TRF.

Also look at the side of the day sack and you will see a piece of equipment called a HD6 which AFAIK is only used by ATO in theatre.

Also look at what is happening in the picture. Are they looking for the enemy? Unlikely that a sniper would expose themselves like that.

I would suggest that there is an area that needs clearing and ATO is using the Sniper rifle for observation prior to a manual approach and its possible that the fella that is being used as a leaning post is guiding ATO onto the suspect area.

Clearly this is all best guess and I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows the real story behind the picture.
Well if you're going to picky then I think you'll find that the "sniper" has also forgotten his twisters.
 
#18
smudge67 said:
dingerr said:
Goatman said:
Check this

Op Herrick Jan 2009

Observe what is attached to (Real)Marine sniper's leg.
I don't think the guy holding the sniper rifle is Royal. I think it is possibly ATO.

There is no Royal Marines Commando shoulder flash or 3 Cdo Bde TRF.

Also look at the side of the day sack and you will see a piece of equipment called a HD6 which AFAIK is only used by ATO in theatre.

Also look at what is happening in the picture. Are they looking for the enemy? Unlikely that a sniper would expose themselves like that.

I would suggest that there is an area that needs clearing and ATO is using the Sniper rifle for observation prior to a manual approach and its possible that the fella that is being used as a leaning post is guiding ATO onto the suspect area.

Clearly this is all best guess and I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows the real story behind the picture.
Well if you're going to picky then I think you'll find that the "sniper" has also forgotten his twisters.
What's the score with the guy in the foreground? I thought the carbine was only used by tank crews?
 
#19
brave-coward said:
smudge67 said:
dingerr said:
Goatman said:
Check this

Op Herrick Jan 2009

Observe what is attached to (Real)Marine sniper's leg.
I don't think the guy holding the sniper rifle is Royal. I think it is possibly ATO.

There is no Royal Marines Commando shoulder flash or 3 Cdo Bde TRF.

Also look at the side of the day sack and you will see a piece of equipment called a HD6 which AFAIK is only used by ATO in theatre.

Also look at what is happening in the picture. Are they looking for the enemy? Unlikely that a sniper would expose themselves like that.

I would suggest that there is an area that needs clearing and ATO is using the Sniper rifle for observation prior to a manual approach and its possible that the fella that is being used as a leaning post is guiding ATO onto the suspect area.

Clearly this is all best guess and I'm happy to be corrected if anyone knows the real story behind the picture.
Well if you're going to picky then I think you'll find that the "sniper" has also forgotten his twisters.
What's the score with the guy in the foreground? I thought the carbine was only used by tank crews?
That isn't the Carbine mate, they've updated the SA80 hand guard to a Picatinny Rail system, mean we can bolt all sorts of ally looking stuff on to the weapon, don't think it'll be brought over here though, like the Osprey, I think it'll stay in theatre.
 
#20
Smudge - I wasn't being picky - just observation.
 

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