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Half Pensions in the TA

#1
Now i am unsure if this is rumour control or not, hence the reason i am asking but the jungle drums have been beating to the tune of "if a TA soldier completes four operational tours, the soldier is then entitiled to half an army pension" is this true? i think we worked out half a pension equates to about £400 knicker a month which aint that bad, however i have a strange suspicion that it is a ll a rouge to get more TA Soldiers volunteering for operation tours (which i have done twice and if it is true will no doubt be doing twice again!!!). anyone who can shed some light on this issue pray tell...... :?
 
#3
This is THE ARMY. They sack people for no cause to avoid giving them a full pension (manning control ring any bells). If they can't get people's medals to them in a timely fashion, provide them with healthcare and stress support - well what do you think the odds are they would provide a pension for two years service? I know you've been up the sharp end, you know but Glasgow doesn't give a stuff buddy, as far as they are concerned two years in Basra, two years in Fulford, two years in HQ Wales = two years = no pension!!
 
G

Goku

Guest
#4
I would have thought if this were true then they’d have made this common knowledge as a way of encouraging volunteers for mobilisation.
 
#5
Slates said:
Now i am unsure if this is rumour control or not, hence the reason i am asking but the jungle drums have been beating to the tune of "if a TA soldier completes four operational tours, the soldier is then entitiled to half an army pension" is this true? i think we worked out half a pension equates to about £400 knicker a month which aint that bad, however i have a strange suspicion that it is a ll a rouge to get more TA Soldiers volunteering for operation tours (which i have done twice and if it is true will no doubt be doing twice again!!!). anyone who can shed some light on this issue pray tell...... :?
Might be interesting to know what "jungle drums" have been making this false claim.
 
#6
I am not entirely sure on this one but you may become eligible under such a scheme if he completed four tours and remained in the TA for the same amount of time as his regular counterpart does to qualify for it at the end of 22 years full reckonable service to [half] pension!

My penson as a former regular warrant officer Class 2 is currently £7034.04 pa from which a total of £218.90 is deducted in tax at source by the Inland Revenue which leaves a monthly payment of £567.91. It is then taxed again by the Inland Revenue when it is added to my salary from work since the Inland Revenue regard it as a 'benefit in kind' taxing my pension and salary together!

Thus, it may well be that you will qualify for it after 22 years reckonable service and when you eventually get it, you will be taxed twice on it when you commence employment which is bound to occur since soldiers are discharged only halfway through their working lives!

I would not anticipate much being left out of any 'half' penson should that be the qualifying criteria!

But what the hell - this is an Army Rumour service after all!

Regards and best wishes
 
#7
TA 1/2 pension? Muahahahahahahahhahaha! That has got to be the funniest posting on Arrse for a while. A MOD should move it to the Jokes section.

So a half pension for what? For serving about 30(?) days a year compared to a Reg serving 364? While doing his 22, most regulars will do at least 6 op tours, many will complete more than 10. The only way this will happen would be if the Treasury had a brain embolism: to get around EU and UK legislation that specifies pension rights for part-time workers (the law says they are to be equal to full-time employees) the MoD nicely classifies ALL TA personnel as 'Casual Labourers', thus exploiting a loophole in the legislation.

Keep dreaming.
 
#8
The TA only exists because we are a cheap alternative to real soldiers who have the added advantage of have no strings attached.

As soon as any sort of pension is sorted out for the TA that means that the whole point of the TA vanishes in a puff of smoke.
 
#9
Well, why the hell shouldn't we get a pension?

If what Slate's says is true, me and him both know how Rumour Control works, then I'll be volunteering to go back on Ops asap - already done Iraq but Herrick would suit as would a stint in the Balkans as I seem to be the only fecka who aint been there!! The whole mindset of the MOD towards reservists needs to change and quickly!! We know, and they know, that we are more vital than we have been since WW2 and it's about time that we were shown the respect and value we deserve. As soldiers of the fourth largest economy in the world, is a pension plus other benefits like a forces railcard too much to ask for - I for one know it is'nt!

I think we at ARRSE should sort a campaign to get the correct financial recognition in return for our services, which at times, are to the detriment of our family, social and working lives.
 
#10
Slates said:
Now i am unsure if this is rumour control or not, hence the reason i am asking but the jungle drums have been beating to the tune of "if a TA soldier completes four operational tours, the soldier is then entitiled to half an army pension" is this true? i think we worked out half a pension equates to about £400 knicker a month which aint that bad, however i have a strange suspicion that it is a ll a rouge to get more TA Soldiers volunteering for operation tours (which i have done twice and if it is true will no doubt be doing twice again!!!). anyone who can shed some light on this issue pray tell...... :?
Under the current regs if someone is mobilised from the TA and serves more than 2 years their service then has to be classed as pensionable, but this is only f/t service. I am not sure if this is cumulative - perhaps some legal eagle could advise.

Under the RFA 95 you can be called up for 12 months in any 3 year period, so I suppose if you did 6 years and were mobilised 3 or 4 times up to your 12 months in each period then you could be on the way to pensionable service.

Ordinary TA service, Annual camps, courses etc do not count as pensionable and the TA is not counted as part time employment (another way of trying to get a pension). For govt/treasury purposes as has been stated on previous threads TA Service is classed as CASUAL employment and thus exempt from pensin regs :wink:
 
#12
Cutsy said:
Well, why the hell shouldn't we get a pension?

If what Slate's says is true, me and him both know how Rumour Control works, then I'll be volunteering to go back on Ops asap - already done Iraq but Herrick would suit as would a stint in the Balkans as I seem to be the only fecka who aint been there!! The whole mindset of the MOD towards reservists needs to change and quickly!! We know, and they know, that we are more vital than we have been since WW2 and it's about time that we were shown the respect and value we deserve. As soldiers of the fourth largest economy in the world, is a pension plus other benefits like a forces railcard too much to ask for - I for one know it is'nt!

I think we at ARRSE should sort a campaign to get the correct financial recognition in return for our services, which at times, are to the detriment of our family, social and working lives.
Could not agree with you more Cutsy!

The rules promulgated concerning equal treatment of Part-Time employers originate from the EU by way of Directive - Directives are, should certain conditions obtain, 'directly effective' - that is to say they may be enforced by the domestic courts in this country. If the EU Directive makes no such distinction than the UK Court can, in the event of doubt make a reference to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) for a determination of the issue. The UK is bound by such judgements under EU Law. Domestic courts have the power to order the Government to apply the directive in accordance with the judgement arrived at by the ECJ!

The ECJ looks at 'substance' rather than form!

TA soldiers have a minimum training obligation and may be called out for full time service under Queen's Order. It is this latter aspect which appears, in my judgement, that which the United Kingdom government chooses to classify as 'Casual Employment' rather than the obligation to perform the former to equip him to carry out the latter which is, as a matter of substance, part time employment which may very well fall within the applicable rules set out in the Directive.

Our case law as well as the case law of the ECJ is littered with examples of how the United Kingdom government seeks to circumvent, partially implement or fails to implement directives into it's domestic law!

They tried exactly the same trick under the 'equal treatment' directive which required equal pay for work of equal value between men and women in the same employment and had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the European Commission to the ECJ who found the United Kingdom Government in breach of the law!

I think I will have a look at this one when I get the time and come back with an opinion just to check exactly what the Directive says and see if our own statutory instruments which give effect to it do so in a way that is compatible with EU law!

I think it is grossly insulting that a TA soldier killed on active service having given his life for his country should bear the appellation: "Died on Active Service as a Casual Labourer!!"

Regards and best wishes
Iolis
 
#13
It's worth noting two things on pensions:

First, Maj Gen Westminster, ACDS Res and Cadets and the senior Reserves Officer in the Forces, is vitriolically opposed, for a number of reasons;

Second that "Casual Labour" status has some benefits (and don;t ask me what they are) when it comes to calculations for various benefits- irregular and unpredictable, at least to the DSS and therefore not assessable.

It is similar to those Civil Servants for whom a Civil Service Bonus would put them over a threshold thus losing them benefit payments, thus losing them money overall (and you thought soldiers weren't well paid!)

There is rumoured to be a proper Additional Duties Commitment coming as soon as they can get it done which may have a pensionable element.
 
#14
Max_Bialystock said:
It's worth noting two things on pensions:


Second that "Casual Labour" status has some benefits (and don;t ask me what they are) when it comes to calculations for various benefits- irregular and unpredictable, at least to the DSS and therefore not assessable.

.
Do you mean I didnt have to declare it when on the dole? - not what the dole office thought!
 
#15
Quote:

First, Maj Gen Westminster, ACDS Res and Cadets and the senior Reserves Officer in the Forces, is vitriolically opposed, for a number of reasons

It's nice to have such a high ranking TA officer taking an interest, though I have to say it's highly unlikely such a member of the gentry would benefit from such a pension. Secondly, maybe the said general would like to consult his officers and men on this very important issue before 'vitriolically' opposing such proposals. After all, he certainly wasn't conveying my wishes nor those of countless others!!
 
#16
Purple_Emperor said:
Max_Bialystock said:
It's worth noting two things on pensions:


Second that "Casual Labour" status has some benefits (and don;t ask me what they are) when it comes to calculations for various benefits- irregular and unpredictable, at least to the DSS and therefore not assessable.

.
Do you mean I didnt have to declare it when on the dole? - not what the dole office thought!
TA pay is taxable and any earned income is declarable to the DSS and UBO. Unless the rules have changed, as it is paid in arrears they used to do some marvellous calculation and reduce a portion of your benefit when you declare it. Also your trg course or annual camp involves paying NI as well. When signing on you are credited with an NI stamp towards your state pension, any paid stamps will show up on your record. The only amount you do not have to declare is your bounty as it is non-taxable and is paid for your liability to call-up and for completing your training commitment. (unless the regs have changed again!) :roll:
 
#17
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

Although it would be lovely to have the same benefits as the USNG, that's not going to happen. There are other benefits that would help immensely though.

1) A credit union, as practiced by many reserve forces all over the world. Don't think it would help? Imagine paying one and a half percent less interest on your mortgage or any other loan.

2) Free dental and other medical treatment for reservists. Get rid of prescription fees as well.

3) Priority medical treatment for reservists (to a certain extent).

Two years worth of pension payments is never going to justify a £400 a month pension scheme.

One other thing worries me about being "casual". "Casual Labour" implies that you or your employer can terminate your contract at any time. What happens if some scrote in Basra turns round a month into a tour and says "I'm a civilian, get me out of here!".

What happens then?
 
#18
Refering to the 'casual labour' point. Aren't even 'casual labourers' entitled to holiday pay? I have worked a number of summers as a temp, and part of the law states that you have to get an annual holiday for four weeks per year.

Definately don't remember getting my holiday pay (on average two weekends a month, therefore four weeks would work out at five days pay).
 
#19
gingwarr said:
One other thing worries me about being "casual". "Casual Labour" implies that you or your employer can terminate your contract at any time. What happens if some scrote in Basra turns round a month into a tour and says "I'm a civilian, get me out of here!".

What happens then?
Nothing, as you are effectively transferred to the regular army for the duration of your tour.

msr
 
#20
birduk said:
Refering to the 'casual labour' point. Aren't even 'casual labourers' entitled to holiday pay?
I believe that you have to work for 118 days before you get paid holiday - Dr Evil will be best placed to confirm or deny this...

msr
 

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