Habla Espanol? Air Tanker work goes to Spain.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by sunnoficarus, Jun 22, 2012.

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  1. From the comments below the article

    "Of course anyone who's read Private Eye recently will know that the real scandal is the astronomical cost of this PFI scam.

    The Eye discovered that the MOD held completely successful trials with a private US company which holds a contract to carry out air-to-air refuelling for the US Air Force, using existing converted Boeings.

    This US company tendered to supply 14 aircraft and crews at £20 million each - a total cost of £280 million. But despite the fact that the RAF were 100% happy with the results of the trial, the MOD decided to press ahead with a PFI deal, using specially-built Airbuses instead.

    Even buying the Airbuses 'conventionally', rather than through the glorified HP of PFI, would only have cost £50 million each - a total cost of £700 million.

    Instead, the contract the MOD chose is costing us - as mentioned above - £10.5 billion, which is £10.24 billion more than, or only 3,750% of the cost of, going with the US company.

    But don't expect the Telegraph to bother informing its readers of this, only the latest in a long line of ruinously expensive defence procurement cock-ups."

    Another win for the MoD Procurement blokes.
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Not defending the indefensible, but I see at least two flaws: buying NEW Airbuses opposed to "converted Boeings" (presumably second-hand), and using Airbus instead of Boeing. Boeings would be built in Murica, Airbus could be pursuaded to build at least part in the UK.

    Does the $20 mil include all costs, or is it converted airframes only? i.e. are we comparing apples with apples?
  3. The reasons are obvious - PFI does not appear on balance sheets as debt. Same incentive that it has always held.
  4. One point that springs to mind. if the RAF owned the aircraft then the RAF would pay servicing and maintance costs as part of normal day to day life. Parts would be bought as required so no extra costs involved on a day to day basis.

    How much of that project involves costs that would normally be borne by the RAF as part of the total cost of ownership of the aircraft ?
  5. Cold_Collation

    Cold_Collation LE Book Reviewer

    Yep. PFI was used for dogmatic reasons, rather than because it made the best sense. Some fella named Brown thought it was a good idea...
  6. Wasn't that part of the reasoning behind upgrading Nimrod? But it didn't work too well.
  7. Will they then smash them to pieces?
  8. Well PFI was originally brought in by a Conservative govenment and carried forward by Labour when it came into power but I agree with the sentiment but don't just blame Brown!.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Cold_Collation

    Cold_Collation LE Book Reviewer

    Oh, I know who came with the concept. But you have to accept that Brown made rather prodigious use of PFIs to cook the books and make things seem better than they were. In the process, he nearly bankrupted us.

    I wasn't trying to make this a 'knocking Labour' thread, but Brown is bang to rights, whether it be for air tankers, new schools, new hospitals...
  10. Don't forget health centres! Our consulting rooms cost £20k per year in rent.
  11. They didn't just come up with the concept. They were doing it. Major is just as guilty as Blair and Brown. It's a huge expense to the public purse. I have a mate who has built up a property portfolio approaching somewhere around £80 million quid through PFI. He builds and lets student accommodation for universities.

    Nice money if you can get it but it's really our money. It's disgraceful that this is happening and it's the same with this tanker scheme as it has been outlined in this thread. Some people somewhere are getting stinking rich on the back of the tanker deal and again, it's really our money.

    Labour by virtue of winning the election in 1997 have used PFI extensively but it wasn't their invention.
  12. Cold_Collation

    Cold_Collation LE Book Reviewer

    Agreed, but we're going to end up getting into something circular here so let's agree and disagree all at the same. It's Friday after all... :-D
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Can I be the first to predict that by the time the tanker aircraft comes into service we will have no aircraft or significant overseas roles that need re-fuelling capability?
  14. Will they then smash them to pieces?
    • Like Like x 1