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H Jones VC

#1
I’ve no doubt there's been ample attention given to the acts of CO 2 Para during the action at Goose Green. Whilst I have no intention of rekindling the “right or wrong” debate – if it’s ever died down, I would like some pointers on any discussion that has taken place either here on ARRSE (yes I have searched) or on the net.

I have to give a brief presentation on “A leader of my choice” for a promotion course shortly, so I thought I’d talk to the Aussie mob about a chap whose bravery cannot be doubted, but decision making has been a moot point since that day he led the charge.

I vividly remember two fantastic presentations at Sandhurst by Keeble and Pike, if only I’d taken notes!

Any tips gladly accepted.

Ta, Oz.
 
#2
Try here:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=61666.html

I have not reread the thread, but I am sure there will be plenty of Jones stuff in it.

Also try here:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=59360.html

It has recommendations for a number of useful books on the subject.

Make sure you get Spencer FitzGibbon's 'Not Mentioned In Despatches' Its all about leadership styles.


I recently wrote an essay on Goose Green and specifically if it was 'pointless and wasteful'. My embarrassment aside, pm me if you want to have a read, it might help as I do have a pop at both Jones and Thompson (from the safety of my armchair it has to be said) and at least the bibliography will give you some interesting sources/books to look at.
 
#4
Have a read of a Book by Mark Adkin, called 'Goose Green, A battle is fought to be won', or something like that. Gives some detail to the not-often-mentioned views!

B-T
 
#5
Cheers fellas.

BBR - The essay was very helpful, and may I sat delightfully written! You raise some interesting points, which may spark debate.

Currently reading Maj Gen John Frost's book - a tad bias, but interesting none the less.

BT - I've PM'd you.

Oz
 
#6
Ozduke said:
Cheers fellas.

BBR - The essay was very helpful, and may I sat delightfully written! You raise some interesting points, which may spark debate.

Oz
You’re welcome. :D

I could have written a hell of a lot more, but there was a 3000 word max limit.

The bibliography will contain the major relevant works on Goose Green, but you should focus on the ones I have used in footnotes.

Adkin v FitzGibbon is the main debate.

Hastings is not really worth looking at; not in depth enough and as the first of the popular histories, it is the genesis of most of the myths.

Edit: Ozduke, if you complete oyur presentation as a word doc, can you email to me, I would like to see what arguments you come up with.
 
#7
Oz check PM's

For any one else some useful stuff Here
 
#8
BlotBangRub said:
Hastings is not really worth looking at; not in depth enough and as the first of the popular histories, it is the genesis of most of the myths.
I concur. Hastings is a chimp.
 
#10
big-timer said:
BlotBangRub said:
Hastings is not really worth looking at; not in depth enough and as the first of the popular histories, it is the genesis of most of the myths.
I concur. Hastings is a chimp.
Hastings is a good starting point, but it is a broad history and it has been expanded and improved upon since.

If you were to read one book about the whole war, that would probably have to be it.
 
#11
As opposed to Freedman's official history?
 
#13
:D Fair point! Hastings just gets on my nipples a bit. He's too fond of stating his opinions as facts, leading to the common misconceptions that people then regurgitate instead of deciding for themselves.
 
#15
Mr_Relaxed said:
Bicheno's book was a good read.
Agreed, the most fun out of any of them that I have read, I think because we have similar political views.

He is good on the Junta mindset, (Former S. America MI6 officer) and the military campaign.

He shoots from the hip (His photo caption for the Junta and Jorge Anaya in particular is hilarious) and dispells the myths as well as bringing some new (as far as I know anyway) insights from his security background, ie regarding NSA intercepts etc.

A good book.
 
#16
Ozduke

I'm going to take a guess here .... by now you've been slightly over exposed to the glories of Monash?
 
#17
That's right - I've had a gut full of the likes of him and the Gallipoli myths.

Anyway, I'm keen to get any chat on the relationships between;

Jones and Thompson - was it simply Royal v Para?
Jones and Pike - Did competition lead Jones to act the way he did?
Jones and Keeble - Did thier styles clash or compliment? Particularly of interest is how the Bn (OCs in particular) seemed to collectively sigh in relief when Keeble took over - with all due respect to Jones. It is also interesting that Keeble has kept relatively quiet over the whole affair
 

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