Guy Gibson and his dog on ITV4

For the PC the easy solution would be to change Gibson's colour to black, at which he would be freely entitled without criticism these days to call his homies or his dog Nigga, or Nigger, spell it as you will.
 

Ciggie

GCM
It would be easy...the film was in black and white. There's the answer, turn the film into white only...fantastic soundtrack.
 
As I type this on the wall above the PC in my office hangs a painting of a Lanc , signed by Leonard Cheshire ,David Shannon , Bill Tait and Bill Reid ..... part of the attraction of the original film is the fact that the crews of the Lancs used in the film were for the most part WW2 vets who well knew from first hand experiance exactly what it would have been like to fly over Germany and who flew creaking old lancs for the film at 50ft above the water and pulled proper G in the turns .... none of the CGI that the modern version will have to use .
While not doubting Stephen Frys intentions I for one remain sceptical of the endresult of the remake .... some things are best left alone.
 
You're welcome RhodieBKK. Spent many a Sunday at East Kirkby Heritage Centre, Metheringham, Scampton and Woodhall Spa. Down the A46, Wymeswold. I understand that Gibson was at Digby also.
For anyone interested, a list of RAF Lincs bases/Museums is here RAF-lincolnshire.info :: Lincolnshire Aviation Museums
JD found the image and posted in a 2008 thread.

considering the interest imo worth reposting with acknowledgements to JD.

BTW any links to the suppositions aired previously that suggest Guy Gibson
was anything but an extraordinary 26 year-old courageous thruster?
 

Ciggie

GCM
If you think about it, it would be imopossible for the Germans to produce a film of such exploits. Wherefore the Luftwaffe on such top flying as the dams, the Mosquito raids et al ? Come to that, a few of our allies couldn't reach our standards.
 
B

Boozy

Guest
Oh lordy, please don't let Stephen Fry near the screenplay of any remake!

As a telly personality/genius/comedian he is an all round top bloke.

However having been forced to read some drivel of a book he wrote called "Making History" at university I have to conclude that he is a rubbish storywriter. I, and most of my contemporaries wanted to gouge our eyes out by the end and hold mass book burnings. Maybe I'm wrong never having read any of his other books, but that one I did read doesn't instil any faith in me about his abilities!
 

Ciggie

GCM
Whilst Fry might have been accepted into the WWII Crab cadre for his shirtlifting proclivities, albeit with a grimace, as I reckon most Crabs then were straighter than a die, as a yellowbellied coward, who ran away from a theatre performance, God knows what he would do confronted with combat, I personally feel reviled that he could have anything to do with portraying the real exploits of people with real guts. As for genuis...if Stephen Fry is a genius, there isn't a word in the English language to describe the intellectual prowess of mutton.
 
If you think about it, it would be imopossible for the Germans to produce a film of such exploits. Wherefore the Luftwaffe on such top flying as the dams, the Mosquito raids et al ? Come to that, a few of our allies couldn't reach our standards.
More than a bit harsh .... Adolf Galland was at least as good as any Brit a point made more than once by D Bader , read many combat reports from the time and one thing becomes evident .... the enemy in his many forms did have some outstanding pilots ... the German pilots flew non stop through the war with little or no rest from opps .... and yes even the septics produced some outstanding airmen .

To underestimate your enemy has been the downfall of many a great leader and that trait continues to this day as Egypt well illustrates
 

Suddick

War Hero
Whilst Fry might have been accepted into the WWII Crab cadre for his shirtlifting proclivities, albeit with a grimace, as I reckon most Crabs then were straighter than a die, as a yellowbellied coward, who ran away from a theatre performance, God knows what he would do confronted with combat, I personally feel reviled that he could have anything to do with portraying the real exploits of people with real guts. As for genuis...if Stephen Fry is a genius, there isn't a word in the English language to describe the intellectual prowess of mutton.
Is there no thread on this site that you won't try to ruin you tedious melonhead.
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
If you think about it, it would be imopossible for the Germans to produce a film of such exploits. Wherefore the Luftwaffe on such top flying as the dams, the Mosquito raids et al ? Come to that, a few of our allies couldn't reach our standards.
The local Mohnesee Germans weren't too chuffed though :) (Anybody ever go sailing at Mohnesee?) Anyone ever heard the story of squaddies looking for the Mohne Damm (circa 1983) "Can you tell me where the Mohne Damm is , bitte?" ;-0) "Nein , you found it in '43, so find it again!".

Casualties of the Dams Raid - 617 Squadron and the Dams Raid
"Final figures for the Möhne area were later reported as": German dead 476, Missing 69

Excellent on-line exhibitions at Dambusters raid, RAF 617 Squadron & bouncing bomb - RAF Museum

Also, a new Dambusters Memorial is underway for Woodhall Spa (News from me old Ma in Lincoln).
 
Whilst Fry might have been accepted into the WWII Crab cadre for his shirtlifting proclivities, albeit with a grimace, as I reckon most Crabs then were straighter than a die, as a yellowbellied coward, who ran away from a theatre performance, God knows what he would do confronted with combat, I personally feel reviled that he could have anything to do with portraying the real exploits of people with real guts. As for genuis...if Stephen Fry is a genius, there isn't a word in the English language to describe the intellectual prowess of mutton.
Ciggie perhaps?
 

Ciggie

GCM
Well, indeed. At least I never nicked my dad's credit card, ran away from the circus, or lifted a shirt other than my own. Genius ? Me ? Far from it. At least I have the decency to admit that. Genuis in Britain today seems to devolve to the likes of Fry and Cowell. So be it. The last pipe-smoker I saw was an Italian.
 

Ciggie

GCM
Bar4nes Wallis was a genius. English through and through. Well done, Sir Barnes. Pity that in ten years' time there won't be a single person in the country who can understand elementary engineering, let alone what you did. Now there's a film.....the Dam Busters of Today......dog called Faisel, pilots called Wayne and Sheen, engineer designing it all on World of Warcraft.
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
JD found the image and posted in a 2008 thread.

considering the interest imo worth reposting with acknowledgements to JD.

BTW any links to the suppositions aired previously that suggest Guy Gibson
was anything but an extraordinary 26 year-old courageous thruster?
Depicted as an arrogant professional perhaps. But such allusions don't do Guy Gibson VC, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar any justice. You're right to challenge. For the record; other men of his time, sometimes alleged to be "arrogant" or of a "vicious temper", include Johnson and Bader. Remarkable men, no need to tell you that. I grew up not knowing that Johnson grew up not two miles away from my home in Leicestershire sop how's that for ignorance? But I digress.

I've had the honour of working , living, or visiting at almost every Lincs airfield at which Gibson worked (also without knowing).

By the end of his third tour he had completed 170 sorties and was promoted to Wing Commander, receiving the DSO and Bar at the age of 24! . Having read so many books on Op Chastise of '43, Gibson has been described as the "greatest warrior this island has ever produced" by "Bomber" Harris, who also appears to have regretted allowing Gibson to return to active duty after a desk job at East Kirkby.

Gibson appears to have been given carte-blanche to pick the members of 617 Sqn, unusual in itself, and without even knowing at the time what he had to achieve. Apart from being called "arrogant", they are stories of him running about at Scampton on a motorcycle, being "all for his crews" and "warlike". BBC - WW2 People's War - I was Guy Gibson's Friend and Worked on the First Radar Navigation and Early H25 TV and the Pathfinders Squadron

Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC, DSO & Bar, DFC & Bar is buried in Steenbergen in Holland, after crashing on 19th September 1944, his last words over the radio were "Nice work chaps, now beat it home".

See also Enemy Coast Ahead Uncensored: The Real Guy Gibson Soft Cover: Amazon.co.uk: Guy Gibson: Books
 
I read " Enemy Coast Ahead " by Guy Gibson as mentioned by Tremaine many years ago and I am sure that parts of the dialogue in the original Dam Busters film are taken straight from that part of the book which relates to the raid .Further in my opinion anyone doing a remake should be very careful and sympathetic to the original which is so well known ... to me one of the most emotive scenes is when the crews are sitting on the airfield perimeter awaiting the order to enplane . Looking to earlier war film versions for such guidance has been known for its success as many scenes from a " Bridge Too Far " are from the earlier black and white " Theirs is the Glory " made just after WW2 using officers and men who had taken part in the Arnhem drop . Whatever the outcome the original film has set a pretty high bar as a standard for any remake .
 
I met Bader a couple of times at the Guinea Pig club in East Grinstead, he was always a likeable bloke and all ways pretty mellow. To do what these blokes did took balls of a huge size and they had to be arrogant and cocksure just to get through the missions they had to do. I very much doubt if they were not arrogant and bloody minded then they would not have been as half as succesful.
 
I met Bader a couple of times at the Guinea Pig club in East Grinstead, he was always a likeable bloke and all ways pretty mellow. To do what these blokes did took balls of a huge size and they had to be arrogant and cocksure just to get through the missions they had to do. I very much doubt if they were not arrogant and bloody minded then they would not have been as half as succesful.
Both Bader and Gibson were professionals as well having joined the peacetime RAF. They will have had their training and formative years under the discipline of a peacetime forces regime.
 

jim24

LE
Book Reviewer
The local Mohnesee Germans weren't too chuffed though :) (Anybody ever go sailing at Mohnesee?) Anyone ever heard the story of squaddies looking for the Mohne Damm (circa 1983) "Can you tell me where the Mohne Damm is , bitte?" ;-0) "Nein , you found it in '43, so find it again!".

Casualties of the Dams Raid - 617 Squadron and the Dams Raid
"Final figures for the Möhne area were later reported as": German dead 476, Missing 69

Excellent on-line exhibitions at Dambusters raid, RAF 617 Squadron & bouncing bomb - RAF Museum

Also, a new Dambusters Memorial is underway for Woodhall Spa (News from me old Ma in Lincoln).
Thats not quit right, there were another 43 civilians killed in the retaliatory raid on the 18th of May against Cardiff or the 10 Luftwaffe aircrew who also lost their lives
 
This reminds me of a certain full screw who in a camouflage and concealment ex threw a tube of sr white tooth paste at a chap of Jamaican extraction and went on to say how the silvery moons shine more than us honkys.How times change :)
 
The Dambusters always brings back fond memories of a geography trip to Derwent Water with school. We spent a couple of days tabbing round the countryside and visiting the dam where the attack was filmed. The last night of the trip we were shown the film and to my delight it wasn't edited so the rudeboys among us exploded with fury when the pooch appeared. "Nah man" and "what the fuck bredrin" was shouted from the back.

To the teachers credit they ignored the outrage and left it on bless them.

In regard to Peter Jacksons remake I read an interview where he said that the Dambusters is one of his favourite films so wanted to do it justice by remaking it himself. Fingers crossed.
 

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