Discussion in 'Iraq/Kuwait (Op GRANBY)' started by chimera, Jul 1, 2008.

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  1. chimera

    chimera LE Moderator

  2. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Yep - I've got one. The guy who was quoted said it would appear that it was more likely to be 'stress related' illnesses than due to injections or tablets - what a load of old %^*&"!£!!

    Nobody care to look into DU ammo further then?

    Edited to add:

    Pesticides? Really? Uranium and nerve gas - far more likely for the DU. The septics knew exactly where Saddam stored the stockpiles of US and German-supplied chemical weapons. They knew where he had stored them since during the 8-year Iran-Iraq war, and he hadn't moved them. It was one of the first places on the list to get flattened in a big way when the air strikes of GW1 went in. Any troops operating in that vicinity might have suffered the after-effects, but that was localised. The people suffering Gulf War Syndrome operated all over Iraq, and not just the chemical weapons location.

    The DU is another story, and there's a couple of recent threads already devoted to how DU ammo works, how it burns, how a lot turns into fine dust on impact, and how that then blows around with the sand. There's also a good deal of info about Iraqi civilians who have suffered/do suffer from ailments not in the least bit dissimilar to Gulf War Syndrome, from having been in the vicinity of heavy DU use in the immediate aftermath.

    One strange thing that nobody has yet explained is why the storage buildings for Iraqi medical records of Iraqi civilian and military personnel were targeted in the first strikes on Iraq in GW1. Would this perhaps be so that no comparative health records existed pre-war to post-war that would then show the actual long-term effects of DU use on the population would be.

    I'd not be fobbed off by some lame excuse about it being purely stress-related. The incidence (already noted in this report) levels of seemingly stress-related post-tour illness is much higher from the Iraq conflict than in others - others that one might argue, were a good deal MORE stressful than Gulf Ops.
  3. and the first thing they'll say is 'the MoD conveniently lost my vaccination record'
    I have had people say that they were not allowed to carry their vaccination record, the unit kept them somewhere safe, also some individuals lost them or they were lost on return so some people won't have complete vaccination histories.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. And it has only taken them how long?
    So what is causing it? Find out because it is affecting a lot of good young men and women. A priority surely for this concerned, caring government.

    Anyway nothing like a good conspiracy to take up internet space.
  5. Not a surprise - no compensation needed. As mentioned, they don't seem to be taking much notice of Depleted Uranium. Did the USA not find a link ??
  6. Well said! Like so many others, I had my record taken off me by medical staff (some RAMC NCO) on return to BFG.

    The issue was raised in BAFF's written evidence last year to the House of Commons Defence Committee's Inquiry on Medical Care for the Armed Forces:

  7. Although I did not deploy on Gulf 1 I do take a very dim view of Army vaccinnations since deployment on the original Op AGRICOLA as the SLE. As a young Tom I was carted into the Med Centre and give 5 injections which have never appeared on my Med Records.

    I point blank refuse to have any injections now unless:

    1. The Med Staff can tell me exactly what it is.

    2. I am allowed to read the bottle.

    3. I can be conviced it is 100% necessary.

    Largely I say no and am quite happy to sign the waiver...... call me cynical but thats what happens after 14 years in this job hahahaha
  8. I still doubt it can be solely blamed on vaccinations, as the various combinations of vaccinations given and the massively wide rage of symptoms reported don't add up. One of the reports into it (a few years ago) stated that the number of people reporting these conditions roughly matched the same number of civi's reporting the same conditions when taken from the same age group. (statistics can prove almost anything you want them to though) IIRC this was looking at the birth defects and blank firing incidents being blamed on GWS.
    The range of symptoms being blamed on GWS is/was very diverse, join pains, birth defects, sterility and memory loss being those I remember (see memory loss already, I've got it too)
  9. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    I only had one injection, can't remember which one, and no I wasn't given a fcuking choice. The other 4 I believe, I was away from the HQ when they were done and never managed to chase it up so didn't get them. I never bothered to take any of the NAPS tablets either. Interestingly I don't have any health problems, stress related or otherwise.

    My moneys on the vaccinations and particularly the whole mix administered at the same time. Anybody who says it was optional obviously wasn't there.
  10. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

  11. I am with Ord Sgt on that one, I wasn't given the choice either.

    Whilst my issue isnt related to GWS it is symptomatic of the way the Army has dealt with vaccinations in the past and doesnt exactly fill people with confidence.

    Not too much of an issue these days as I am more senior than I once was and can quite happily get away with point blank saying no. I do hope that young 'uns arent being 'administered' without explanation or correct documentation anymore.
  12. mmm... 17 yrs 7 months to find out there was nothing wrong.
    Bugger off.
    I thought I had problems no one was interested in my case. Went away still get occasional flare ups but it is so long now that it could be from a range of things. What to do now after so long? Apathy does set in.
  13. I'd be interested in the Naps tablets being investigated more, espeically in conjuction with vaccinations, DU etc., Anyone else get the sudden and overwhelming need to poo approx 1 hour after taking them? We had to stagger when each department in the dressing station took them or the queues for the porta shitters were agony and somewhat messy. The other alternative which most people took was to bin the buggers.
  14. To be honest the article doesnt say that the vacinations werent to blame, it says:

    couple of interesting points, one is the it says 'probably' and the second is that the research 'suggests'.

    Also, it is about Telic rather than Granby:

    so not about something that happened nearly 18 years ago, stand down the outrage wagon.
  15. The way in which we give vaccinations has totally changed since those days (granby), there is paperwork to fill in before hand, some for the patient to sign and there should be a prescription for the vaccine too. No longer are we allowed to claim 'implied consent' where if you stood there and let us get on with it we could say 'well, he turned up at the vaccination parade, and let us do it' now we have to prove that the patient has agreed to it (even routine ones)
    The last time I had a refusal we had to fill out paperwork for that persons CO, as its then the CO's decision on allowing that person to deploy. I really much check up on that and see if its still the case.