"GULF WAR SYNDROME" - VACCINATIONS NOT TO BLAME

chimera

LE
Moderator
#1

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
Yep - I've got one. The guy who was quoted said it would appear that it was more likely to be 'stress related' illnesses than due to injections or tablets - what a load of old %^*&"!£!!

Nobody care to look into DU ammo further then?

Edited to add:

Suspected possible causes include exposure to pesticides, uranium, nerve gas, other chemicals - and vaccinations.
Pesticides? Really? Uranium and nerve gas - far more likely for the DU. The septics knew exactly where Saddam stored the stockpiles of US and German-supplied chemical weapons. They knew where he had stored them since during the 8-year Iran-Iraq war, and he hadn't moved them. It was one of the first places on the list to get flattened in a big way when the air strikes of GW1 went in. Any troops operating in that vicinity might have suffered the after-effects, but that was localised. The people suffering Gulf War Syndrome operated all over Iraq, and not just the chemical weapons location.

The DU is another story, and there's a couple of recent threads already devoted to how DU ammo works, how it burns, how a lot turns into fine dust on impact, and how that then blows around with the sand. There's also a good deal of info about Iraqi civilians who have suffered/do suffer from ailments not in the least bit dissimilar to Gulf War Syndrome, from having been in the vicinity of heavy DU use in the immediate aftermath.

One strange thing that nobody has yet explained is why the storage buildings for Iraqi medical records of Iraqi civilian and military personnel were targeted in the first strikes on Iraq in GW1. Would this perhaps be so that no comparative health records existed pre-war to post-war that would then show the actual long-term effects of DU use on the population would be.

I'd not be fobbed off by some lame excuse about it being purely stress-related. The incidence (already noted in this report) levels of seemingly stress-related post-tour illness is much higher from the Iraq conflict than in others - others that one might argue, were a good deal MORE stressful than Gulf Ops.
 
#3
and the first thing they'll say is 'the MoD conveniently lost my vaccination record'
I have had people say that they were not allowed to carry their vaccination record, the unit kept them somewhere safe, also some individuals lost them or they were lost on return so some people won't have complete vaccination histories.
 
#4
And it has only taken them how long?
So what is causing it? Find out because it is affecting a lot of good young men and women. A priority surely for this concerned, caring government.

Anyway nothing like a good conspiracy to take up internet space.
 
#5
Not a surprise - no compensation needed. As mentioned, they don't seem to be taking much notice of Depleted Uranium. Did the USA not find a link ??
 
#6
theoriginalphantom said:
and the first thing they'll say is 'the MoD conveniently lost my vaccination record'
I have had people say that they were not allowed to carry their vaccination record, the unit kept them somewhere safe, also some individuals lost them or they were lost on return so some people won't have complete vaccination histories.
Well said! Like so many others, I had my record taken off me by medical staff (some RAMC NCO) on return to BFG.

The issue was raised in BAFF's written evidence last year to the House of Commons Defence Committee's Inquiry on Medical Care for the Armed Forces:

13. There must be no repetition of the widespread "disappearance" of inoculation dose records for personnel who served on Operation Granby (Gulf 1990-91), which remains a source of understandable concern to both serving and retired personnel.
 
#7
Although I did not deploy on Gulf 1 I do take a very dim view of Army vaccinnations since deployment on the original Op AGRICOLA as the SLE. As a young Tom I was carted into the Med Centre and give 5 injections which have never appeared on my Med Records.

I point blank refuse to have any injections now unless:

1. The Med Staff can tell me exactly what it is.

2. I am allowed to read the bottle.

3. I can be conviced it is 100% necessary.

Largely I say no and am quite happy to sign the waiver...... call me cynical but thats what happens after 14 years in this job hahahaha
 
#8
I still doubt it can be solely blamed on vaccinations, as the various combinations of vaccinations given and the massively wide rage of symptoms reported don't add up. One of the reports into it (a few years ago) stated that the number of people reporting these conditions roughly matched the same number of civi's reporting the same conditions when taken from the same age group. (statistics can prove almost anything you want them to though) IIRC this was looking at the birth defects and blank firing incidents being blamed on GWS.
The range of symptoms being blamed on GWS is/was very diverse, join pains, birth defects, sterility and memory loss being those I remember (see memory loss already, I've got it too)
 
#9
I only had one injection, can't remember which one, and no I wasn't given a fcuking choice. The other 4 I believe, I was away from the HQ when they were done and never managed to chase it up so didn't get them. I never bothered to take any of the NAPS tablets either. Interestingly I don't have any health problems, stress related or otherwise.

My moneys on the vaccinations and particularly the whole mix administered at the same time. Anybody who says it was optional obviously wasn't there.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
#11
I am with Ord Sgt on that one, I wasn't given the choice either.

Whilst my issue isnt related to GWS it is symptomatic of the way the Army has dealt with vaccinations in the past and doesnt exactly fill people with confidence.

Not too much of an issue these days as I am more senior than I once was and can quite happily get away with point blank saying no. I do hope that young 'uns arent being 'administered' without explanation or correct documentation anymore.
 
#12
mmm... 17 yrs 7 months to find out there was nothing wrong.
Bugger off.
I thought I had problems no one was interested in my case. Went away still get occasional flare ups but it is so long now that it could be from a range of things. What to do now after so long? Apathy does set in.
 
#13
I'd be interested in the Naps tablets being investigated more, espeically in conjuction with vaccinations, DU etc., Anyone else get the sudden and overwhelming need to poo approx 1 hour after taking them? We had to stagger when each department in the dressing station took them or the queues for the porta shitters were agony and somewhat messy. The other alternative which most people took was to bin the buggers.
 
#14
To be honest the article doesnt say that the vacinations werent to blame, it says:

Multiple vaccinations probably did not cause illness among British troops deployed in Iraq, research suggests.
couple of interesting points, one is the it says 'probably' and the second is that the research 'suggests'.

Also, it is about Telic rather than Granby:

The King's team randomly selected nearly 5,000 men and women deployed to Iraq since 2003
so not about something that happened nearly 18 years ago, stand down the outrage wagon.
 
#15
The way in which we give vaccinations has totally changed since those days (granby), there is paperwork to fill in before hand, some for the patient to sign and there should be a prescription for the vaccine too. No longer are we allowed to claim 'implied consent' where if you stood there and let us get on with it we could say 'well, he turned up at the vaccination parade, and let us do it' now we have to prove that the patient has agreed to it (even routine ones)
The last time I had a refusal we had to fill out paperwork for that persons CO, as its then the CO's decision on allowing that person to deploy. I really much check up on that and see if its still the case.
 
#16
Those things have indeed changed since Granby and that is to be welcomed.

While the cohort study relates to personnel deployed to Iraq since 2003, it would be a mistake to suggest that the story and the subject is "all about TELIC" and has no relevance to multiple vaccinations/exposure in earlier campaigns.

The story is based on an article in the British Medical Journal, an abstract of which can be found at http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/337/jun30_1/a220
 
#17
It has always seemed strange to me that the French who as far as I know have had no GWS, never had multiple innocs for that conflict. As a small aside I have my fathers paybook [old days ID][c 1940-45] and in the medical pages in red ink is his refusal to have jabs ... I think the understanding was that if he fell ill as a result and survived then he was up on a 252. Nothing new really.
 
#18
Dodgy vaccinations
DU ammo
Exposure to chemical weapons or residue of weapons after ammo dumps were blown up
Burning petro chemicals
Organo phosphate poisioning from improperly used insectiscides
Naps tablets
PTSD.
Have I left anything else as possible causes.
Trying to link all those causes and symptons into one syndrome is
hopeless .Service personnal are ill think mod need to bite the bullet and care for these people even if a cause can not be identified .As I beleive more than average number of veterans are ill stastics should be able to prove going to gulf one caused more illness than not going .
 
#19
Just like to add, I was in GW1, and I received only one inoculation. 8 days later I found myself in either 34 or 33 (I can't remember which) Field Hosp. I'd been unconscious for 5 days. The Hospital Doctors told me it was pneumonia, and I wasn't alone, there were several guys (from both Army & RAF) in the same 'ward' (tent) as myself, all with the same symptoms. All paperwork and medical records with regards to my 'pneumonia' didn't even make it back to the U.K.
 
#20
I forgot about all the oil in the air from the fires. It's an interesting point because I left Kuwait about 24 hours after the war ended by helicopter so wasn't exposed to it very much. I do remember some guys who drove back to Saudi having oil all over their vehicle so god knows how much they inhaled
 

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