Gulf War II: The Vengeance

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#1
As it has now appeared in the Press (The Times, yesterday) that we are preparing to put "a small division of 12 - 14,000 plus RN and Crabs to help the Yanks in their cunning plans to topple Mr. S Hussein,  it is obviously public domain now.  But isn't their an easier way?  I mean, could we even do it?  Should we do it?  My proposal is to just nuke them all, and glaze it over (Make one hell of a drillsquare)?  Any other suggestions?
 
#2
no, I like sand.....and medals, and lets face it we won't lose, winter fighting, summer clearing mines.....sorted
 
#3
I don't think a large scale assault is the the ideal option, as it would be much safer I think to organise an uprising in Iraq (assuming all the stuff we've been told about huge scale willingness to rebel is actually true...), and provide support where required. if however military action is required, I would support this as long as after appropriate negotiations we can convince the rest of the arab world not to declare war on us.

"Division, in an extended line facing the enemy machine guns, quick... MARCH!
 
#4
Great idea. Post Ex Saif Sareera let the army spend months and a fortune repairing clapped out equipment we can't afford to replace only to do it all again (this time for real). If it happens maybe we should insist on leaving all our old kit behind?
 
#5
The world's gone mad.

We can't afford it, and where the hell are we gonna raise 14,000 spare bodies from, or is all this "overstretch" thing just a nasty rumour, to lull our enemies, old and new in a state of complacency.

here's what to do with Iraq.

Stop the sanctions now, or find someone in Iraq, we can do business with, and operate with him. Let it be known, that if he takes over the day to day running of Iraq, then we will more than happily turn on free trade again. depose with kindness.

My personal feeling, is Bush has lost the plot extremely dramatically. So the axis of evil includes Iraq (pariah) and Syria (Arab world Big Boy). Now we might be able to get the arabs on our side, re kicking Saddam out, but as regards Syria? I think not.

Before we all start thinking that this is going to be Op. Pushover II , something we need to remember.

Iran and Iraq fought for 6 years with hundreds of thousands of casulaties on both sides, with a version of desert trench warfare. Last time, we were just kicking them out of Kuwait, and frankly, they didn't have the stomach for it.
This time, we're talking about invasion. I think, they will put up a hell of a fight personally.

Of course we will win, but at what cost? Exactly what threat does Saddam pose at this time? The last time he tried to go Nuclear, the Israelis bombed the plant flat, and that was that.

If UN sanctions, have been as effective as we are led to believe, then all they've got left. are Bricks and stones (Allegedly) However, I don't really fancy going into action against 20,000,000 martys-to-be

This one needs a serious dose of thinking about

PtP
 
#6
PtP...agreed. I am not party to all of the NSC files and information, but Bush is intellectually inadequate to deal with such a complex issue, and frankly he is advised by Condolezza Rice who is at best a barking madwoman! The net result is Bush trying to finish what daddy started.

Keep tight control of trade with Iraq, and start an operation to depose Saddam by his own people, but let someone competant run the operation. If we let the spams loose they will only hash up the int as the agencies fight for supremacy.

If we aren't careful some other bearded nut will talk a few of his sheep into flying more planes into buildings and releasing toxins in the name of Allah.
 
#7
The RAF and Navy in the MOD will be mortified at the thought of an Armoured Division deploying, they've been trying to get their hands on our (expensive) High Intensity warfare capability  for the last few years in order to discredit it and pocket the cash for more cocktail parties and hotel claims.  OK the whole escapade may be morally bankrupt, led by an idiot and really quite dangerous to those of us involved but hey:

a. It's what I joined to do

b. It may just allow the Army the cast iron argument to stop the Treasury penny pinching and actually resource us for the toys we want.

Or am I howling at the moon again.

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p
 
#8
The thing to get to grips with is that the Septics will do this, and the Strategic discussion point then becomes the SWOT analysis of our participation.  

I think that anything that stimulates additional shekels rattling into teh cavernous and bankrupt coffers of the might MoD has to be a good thing whether one wears white socks, has a KEVIN sunstrip on ones Capri and flies elderly GR4s, or whether you wear pink trousers and look forward to thundering around tiny training areas in a tank that doesnt really do dust (or of course, you may be a tanned hero of democracy wearing the Coveted Green Beret and looking forward to the next run ashore in balmy foreign ports before getting naked and igniting extraneous body hair!)  

 We do all exist obviously to service the requirement of a democratically elected government, and the opportunity for a bit of sh*t kicking doesnt occur very often, so lets get on it, especially as the operational effectiveness of the enemies sharpened guava halves may be suspect!  
 
#9
I agree with 'Lovely', that there isn't much we can do to stop this. But we can still ask, what are we hoping to achieve?

We can't install a democracy in Iraq, because our friends the Saudis don't like that kind of thing near to them.

We can't give the Kurds there own state, because our friends the Turks don't like that kind of thing.

We can't replace Saddam ( a member of the Sunni Muslim minority, although he's probably an aetheist) with a member of the Shi'ite majority, because Iran is Shi'ite and they might become friendly (scaring our friends the Saudis AND the Americans.)

So, by a process of elimination, it appears that we want one of Saddam's current entourage, who until quite recently was content to butcher people to keep his boss happy, to take over. This bloke would have to be friendly to the west, but other than that would be able to continue treat his people like sh1t. (In the Arab world, only the Palestinians have to have democracy.)

If the attack does go ahead, how do we see Saddam responding?

If he has the ability to hit Israel, I presume he'd do so again. Probably with chemical or biological weapons, if he still has any. It wouldn't matter if they were  primative and ineffective, it would be their psychological impact that mattered. If it was the only way he felt he would be able to survive, he might deliberatley provoke an Israeli nuclear attack, to ignite the entire area, as trouble elsewhere could divert American (sorry, Western) strength from the attack on him, and make some friendly Arab countries decide whether they wanted to be helping the war against a country being devastated by Israel.


Sorry for the length of this rant.
 
#11
What on the assumption that she will get at least 3 goes to oust Saddam wheras anyone else would just get the one chance? ::) ::) ::) ::)
 
#13
I'm not sure Iraq would launch a maor NBC attack on Israel, as Israel is militarily very powerful and I doubt Saddam would want to incur their wrath (and even if inneffective when the time comes, right now they've got a heck of a lot of high tech kit, well trained troops, with 50 years warfighting experience and three consecutive victories against arabs to show for it). And by the time Arab support turned to military assistance, Saddam may be well on the way to dying and it's a safe bet his primary concern is himself.
 
#14
Lets cut the crap and get stuck in. We’ll have to wait till middle of next year though because I’ll be on a course till then.

We made the mistake of not finishing the job last time which has lead us into deeper problems see Pork_Pie. Last time we had the kit out there, all the lads had lovely sandy coloured clothes and we had already exchanged the travel warrants, spent the money see.

If Pip is not available too much TV and press stuff to deal with, deploy what we can (14,000 troop Yeah right!) and go in and finish what we didn’t start before it gets worse. We are going to have to upset someone along the way so lets just make sure it’s the right ones. If we do nothing this will be just raise its head later when we have an even less ability to deal with it.

Besides I might be out of the Army by then.
 
#15
UR ALL BARKING MAD! ONE ARAB IS AS BAD AS ANOTHER GLASS THE LOT. WE CAN DRILL THROUGH GLASS. WHEN I SAY GLASS THE LOT I INCLUDE THE MIGHTY STATE OF RED SEA PEDESTRIANS. THEY MIGHT BE THE BIG BOYS ON THE BLOCK WITH NOTHING BUT RAG EADS TO PUSH ABOUT LETS SEE HOW THEY FAIR AGAINST A REAL ARMY.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#16
OK so Hussain is a bad man left in charge as a barrier between Iran and Saudi and hopefully a cowed and stabilizing influence in the Middle East (woopsie!).  

As we are well aware he remains a major political power base in that region and atogoniser towards Israel (who admittedly is an atogoniser towards every arab in the world).  I figure the correct use of military force is absolutely justified to bring Iraq into line, we did it successfully in Afghanistan and a similar operation would work, even if this time we were the ground forces.  

I joined the army prior to GW1 to fight the evil commies in WW3 but figure that 50%-75% of the army joined afterwards.  Therefore you chose the wrong job if you thought that we weren't going back into the Middle East or wouldn't be running around following the US lead (something I personally don't mind TOO much).  If you don't want GW2 and you joined after August 1990 then can you explain exactly why you joined.... not to me I don't care, I mean in your next confidential - just so you don't go any higher up my food chain / promotion ladder.
 
#17
Spot on Happy, there is far too much "I didn't Join to have to do this" rubbish floating about.  Far too many people are getting promoted these days by making sure they keep their noses clean, not showing any moral courage with their superiors and generally sh**ing on the poor sods below them.

Oh God, I've gone off on one again but you get my point.  We all joined to soldier - didn't we? :mad: :mad:
 
#18
Having just watched President Bush's morale building speech to the 10th Mountain Division after their return to the states.  I think it may only be a matter of time before we are digging out our desert wellys again.
 
#19
I must confess to being in two minds about GW2.  I've missed two decent wars so far in my service career.  I'd left the RN and joined the TA just in time to miss the Falklands and I was busy getting married, buying houses etc for GW1.  

So do I keep my head down and wait for the invite or do I jump up and down with my hand in the air saying "Sir, me sir!".

Now where did I put my Saif Sareera sunhat?
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#20
To GasGasGas - Depends what you do as a part-time Trade. If you are a green maggot or bleep you'll be called up pronto.  If you are in a 'normal' unit then wait and see.  Frankly, we are more likely to be called up to form Units/Sub-Units to take over from existing regs than anything else - as per the large Pl in Kabul now.  

P.S. Sorry to everyone in the 'real' Army - this is deeply TA-centric, but we are useful sometimes.  Specifically, taking over Cyprus, Gib, Kosovo (Summer only) while you go and get more medals.
 

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