Guidelines for securing a gun safe

#1
Are these published anywhere? I have just been asked to put mastic along the edges of the safe between the safe and the wall... and to bolt the other one to the wall rather than to the floor.

msr
 
#3
Use 'KD8 Toggle bolts' if you have a hollow wall (eg studwall)

If it is stud work, be advised to have the Safe crossing between two pieces of plasterboard and the aluminium stud

I've used this spec for weapon safes and controlled drugs cabinets

.......

Use masonry bolts if 1. they're internal to the safe 2. they're fixed into masonry / concrete etc

Theres a variety of security bolts on the market but remember, its the cabinet that needs to be rated.

You just need to prevent the cabinet being stolen quickly.

eg http://www.shop4fasteners.co.uk/acatalog/Security_Self_Tappers_Torx_Hex_Snake_Eye_Clutch.asp



The local Plob will give you more advice if/when they come to visit
 
#4
sorry to hijack this thread but if you can prove you are keeping a gun in, say, a military armoury, would you still need to have a gun safe fitted at home? Could you also store said weapons ammo in the magazine of the mil establishment or would you also need an ammo safe at home?
 
#5
#6
msr said:
Blogg said:
2005 version

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/firearms-handbook.pdf?view=Binary


Cannot see how a bit of mastic would help in any material way and horizontal floor mounting is perfectly OK as long as solidly fixed.
Such fixings must of course be made into joists and not simply to the floor boarding

bugger
These are not legal requirements - just advisory. If the Police are asking you to do anything pointless or over-extravagant, you should challenge them. What on earth is a mastic strip supposed to contribute?

Use decent fixings and demonstrate to the police that you have some sort of layered security plan - e.g. neighbourhood watch, building occupancy (esp if someone is usually at home), proper door & window locks, cabinet out of obvious sight, etc, etc.
 
#7
I suspect it will be:

"Here is a list of what you have to do... let us know when you have done it"

"Yes"

neighbourhood watch, Yes

building occupancy (esp if someone is usually at home) Yes

proper door & window locks Yes

cabinet out of obvious sight Yes

burglar alarm Yes

Let's face it if someone wants the guns they just turn up mob handed and politely ask for the keys to the cabinet.
 
#8
msr said:
Blogg said:
2005 version

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/firearms-handbook.pdf?view=Binary


Cannot see how a bit of mastic would help in any material way and horizontal floor mounting is perfectly OK as long as solidly fixed.
Such fixings must of course be made into joists and not simply to the floor boarding

bugger
Well perhaps not. I got round this for mounting an extra tall cabinet which was a few inches too big for the available vertical space.

Did this with coach screws onto a hardwood timber plinth (being lengths of 100mm square section sawn to length and screwed/glued together) which was itself very firmly fixed through floorboards to the floor joists with mahoosive coach screws/washers. Had to countersink the screw heads to get a flush fit for cabinet.

Drilled four additional holes in cabinet so it was eight point mounted into plinth

Thus the fact that joists were running North-South did not interfere with desired East-West positioning.

Not pretty but Police were happy with this and in fact commented that it was far more secure that many a wall fixing.
 
#9
Chemical bolts for brickwork, the brick will comeout before the fixing can be removed, threaded bar and plates for joists, quality not quantity 8)

bloggs got the right idea

speedy (the nickname came from fitting locks, not the running but that also helps)
 
#10
None of my cabinet have ever been fastened to the floor, just the wall. Just bolt the thing in and tell them it's done. If you ask them for advice they'll gold plate it. Mastic FFS :roll:

PM etc. if you need to discuss.
 
#11
EX_STAB said:
None of my cabinet have ever been fastened to the floor, just the wall. Just bolt the thing in and tell them it's done. If you ask them for advice they'll gold plate it. Mastic FFS :roll:

PM etc. if you need to discuss.
Didn't ask for advice, just got it.

Presumably from someone who feels a bit under threat in his job...

The safe which now 'requires' mastic was checked and found OK about 18 months ago.

msr
 
#12
msr said:
The safe which now 'requires' mastic was checked and found OK about 18 months ago.

msr
It sounds like it depends on which Plod comes round to check. My local firearms bobby just gave my cabinet a bloody good tug (fnaar) and when it didn't come away from the wall, said 'that's fine'.
 
#13
msr said:
EX_STAB said:
None of my cabinet have ever been fastened to the floor, just the wall. Just bolt the thing in and tell them it's done. If you ask them for advice they'll gold plate it. Mastic FFS :roll:

PM etc. if you need to discuss.
Didn't ask for advice, just got it.

Presumably from someone who feels a bit under threat in his job...

The safe which now 'requires' mastic was checked and found OK about 18 months ago.

msr
I can't get my head round this. What is this mastic supposed to do?
 
#14
devilish said:
sorry to hijack this thread but if you can prove you are keeping a gun in, say, a military armoury, would you still need to have a gun safe fitted at home? Could you also store said weapons ammo in the magazine of the mil establishment or would you also need an ammo safe at home?
Its rare but I think a precedent has been set. It becomes a special condition printed on the license 'that the firearms and ammunition listed hereon are stored at Bloggs Barracks, Building 99 (Armoury) etc;'

I know its been done before where club members have kept their weapons on club premises, but the problem you might have with a mil armoury is to do with access. ie other soldiers who do not have an FAC!

Also, you might want to check and see if the Army/MOD/LandMarc have any issues about you keeping a privately owned weapon and ammo in one of their armouries. No doubt the H&S doom sayers will take a large intake of breath!
 
#15
walt_of_the_walts said:
I know its been done before where club members have kept their weapons on club premises, but the problem you might have with a mil armoury is to do with access. ie other soldiers who do not have an FAC!
If you are signed in then you are exempt. That's how we get to carry automatic weapons.


walt_of_the_walts said:
Also, you might want to check and see if the Army/MOD/LandMarc have any issues about you keeping a privately owned weapon and ammo in one of their armouries. No doubt the H&S doom sayers will take a large intake of breath!
Just write to your CO and ask for his/her permission to store them in the unit armoury.

msr
 
#16
msr said:
walt_of_the_walts said:
I know its been done before where club members have kept their weapons on club premises, but the problem you might have with a mil armoury is to do with access. ie other soldiers who do not have an FAC!
If you are signed in then you are exempt. That's how we get to carry automatic weapons.


walt_of_the_walts said:
Also, you might want to check and see if the Army/MOD/LandMarc have any issues about you keeping a privately owned weapon and ammo in one of their armouries. No doubt the H&S doom sayers will take a large intake of breath!
Just write to your CO and ask for his/her permission to store them in the unit armoury.

msr
So it is achievable?

Good to hear.

Time to apply for my FAC then.
 
#17
EX_STAB said:
None of my cabinet have ever been fastened to the floor, just the wall. Just bolt the thing in and tell them it's done. If you ask them for advice they'll gold plate it. Mastic FFS :roll:

PM etc. if you need to discuss.
Mines the same, bolted flat to a wall with 6 bolts, no mastic or anything like that, its been approved in my last 3 houses and thats 3 different counties so I think your fire arms officer is been a jobsworth!!!
 
#18
devilish said:
sorry to hijack this thread but if you can prove you are keeping a gun in, say, a military armoury, would you still need to have a gun safe fitted at home? Could you also store said weapons ammo in the magazine of the mil establishment or would you also need an ammo safe at home?
Perfectly achievable to store your weapons in a military armoury. I did it for a while as all my shooting was done near where I was based. I was CQMS at the time anyway so had access any time I wanted to armoury. There is a guideline now however that Adjt holds a list of all privately held firearms.

My ammo - 12G, .22LR and .17HMR I kept in the magazine in a sealed metal container with paperwork (i.e this ammo belongs to ME!) with the RQMS knowledge and his and QM's blessing.

Plod was perfectly happy and when my shooting habits changed, I fitted a safe at home, plod inspected and job was a good 'un.
 
#19
EX_STAB said:
msr said:
EX_STAB said:
None of my cabinet have ever been fastened to the floor, just the wall. Just bolt the thing in and tell them it's done. If you ask them for advice they'll gold plate it. Mastic FFS :roll:

PM etc. if you need to discuss.
Didn't ask for advice, just got it.

Presumably from someone who feels a bit under threat in his job...

The safe which now 'requires' mastic was checked and found OK about 18 months ago.

msr
I can't get my head round this. What is this mastic supposed to do?
Did he mean liquid nail :? :wink:

Is there a large gap between your wall and cab ?
 
#20
If there's a gap between cabinet and wall due to a skirting board or whatever some of the more **** forces may advise gap filling with mastic or in my case 'a nice piece of beading'

Edited to add - Apparently the gap makes it easier for thieves to jemmy a cabinet off the wall. However, with eight 13mm bolts securing it to solid brick walls and floor joists they'll have to substitute a jemmy for a JCB.
 

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