Guests at mess functions ???

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Sir_Prancealot, Jun 3, 2007.

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  1. Just a quick straw poll , my unit had always had no problem with mess members (officer or snco) bringing spouses/partners to mess functions even if said partner/spouse was either a junior rank or belonged to another mess. This has recently been halted so Capt Bloggs can no longer take her hubby S/Sgt Bloggs to her mess functions likewise Sgt A-to-Z can no longer take his partner Cpl Punishment to his functions. Is this peculiar to my unit or is this the case across the T.A ? :?
  2. No. Change of RSM with our lot changed the rules for our senior mess.
  3. It has happened in our mess, its normally the mess staff who complain to the commander that Capt Bloggs is bringing LCpl Snodgrass and this causes friction, some have got away with it but it is frowned upon. i took a lcpl to a dinner a few years ago, kept it quiet who she was and everything was tickety boo!!
  4. I believe that our SNCO's can bring their partner to a maximum of two functions a year if they are junior ranks.

    As a Cpl I have never really understood what the objection is, specially in TA units. We don't live the army life 24x7 and I somehow doubt that junior ranks look up to seniors as these god like creatures (that's not to say that we don't respect them) and that our illusions would be crushed by seeing them getting absolutely legless.

    I am assuming that any unit which has a ban on junior ranks attending as a guest would never have juniors waiting on/serving behind the bar for any of their functions. If they did it would smack of hypocrisy.
  5. Rule in our Mess is that wives in the TA are welcome to any function, irregardless of her rank. Girlfriends in the TA are allowed if you're living with them. If they're officers, they don't wear Mess Kit or medals, and are Mrs SNCO.

    RSM's thinking at the time was to stop a SNCO just inviting a JNCO from the unit and taking them along. Living together = serious partner was his view.

    The decision was put into Mess Rules. Democratic decision and all that, and so made it formal. Makes it harder for a more traditional RSM to change as well.

    New RSM/CO may change the rules, but if they see that half the Mess are married to non SNCO's or Officers, they'll soon realise that they're standing at the bar on their own.

    If it's an issue, bring it up at your next Mess Meeting, and propose a change to Mess Rules. Alternatively, depending on how your Mess runs, have a chat with the PMC.
  6. a lot of people worked long and hard to claw thier way up the ladder to become sncos, and i have wittnesed in the past the jncos have an attitude because the are able to attend mess functions and be served by jncos, and it creates friction in the jrc, a lot of things are discussed in theseniors mess and it should be kept there not carried to the jncos.
    at the end of the day its the messes decition which guests attend the mess.
  7. The overriding principle is the one trotted out annually in MATT6 - the service test:

    "Have the actions or behaviour of a serviceman adversely impacted or are they likely to impact on the efficiency or operational effectiveness of the Army?”

    It is not possible to create rules which will address every possible permutation and this test should be applied individually to each case whether rules are laid down or not.

    It is then up to the mess (probably through the PMC or committee) to make a decision and, more importantly, to make sure that everyone is aware of and understands that decision.
  8. No, thats because you are not in the Mess.


    Juniors volunteer to serve, and get paid for their efforts.
  9. Which is why I specifically mentioned my rank in the post.

  10. Perhaps these "difficulties" illustrate the degree to which the One Army (both of them), is out of step with modern society.

    Do we really need separate messes ? Do we need messes at all ? Does the concept of "ladies" nights belong to bygone age ? Is the Army clinging to traditions which are increasingly irrelevant and arguably never were relevant to the "spare time" branch ?
  11. When I retired in 75 I could understand this discussion taking place but I would have thought that by now a mess members partner would be just that irrespective of their position in the service, and would attend mess funtions as a civilian and be treated throughout as the members partner and nothing else. Any mess member unable to cope with this or member of the mess staff should clearly need their horscope read, and equally if the partner cannot cope with the situation they clearly should not be re-invited and I would expect that the mess member would not need to be told this either
  12. So what happened to common sense then ? When I was in this position I made sure to ask the RSM if he was OK with it, and he always was. Mrs OOTS never kicked the backside out of the arrangement and everyone had a great evening. Someone, somewhere in your CoC is being a tool.
  13. Thanks for the feedback folks , I too thought it was the PMC's decision. The change in our unit came from the 2i/c (reg) & believe it went all the way to brigade level for debate. Only affects a few people in the messes but all are either married or living together. Mainly involves seniors & officers so pte bloggs thinking she/he is carrying their partners stripes/pips is not an issue. Really frustrating not even being able to go to each others guest nights but dont really want to go down the line off not attending our own mess functions as a protest.
  14. OK so the 2i/c is a regular but why is he making decisions on your Mess / JRC?

    Sure he is higher up the food chain, but he is not a member of either Mess. Guidance - fine; policy - hmmm......
  15. You're joking right??

    The Military IS out of step with society because it HAS to be.

    Society does not have the freedoms that we do in terms of the application of lethal force, nor do thew have the constraints that we have in terms of strict military discipline. They do not have our values and standards, eg selfless commitment, when was the last time that Joe Public was selflessly committed? (This does not include the TA who are indeed selflessly committed, those who volunteer to deploy that is.) etc etc and so to suggest that we should be in step is rediculous, in my view.

    We have separate messes for exactly the same reason that we have separate regiments, Esprit de Corps, each one fulfills a different role within the microcosm that is the British Military.

    Guests in other messes is another thing. I don't have an issue with it so long as they respect the environment they are in and its rules and regulations, as any guest has an obligation to do. The drama occurs when their experience in that mess on that night are communicated outside that mess across the unit, this is when credibility etc starts to be damaged. We all need times and places to get away from 'the others' whom ever they may be.

    Rant over!! I am stood by ready for debate...