Guardian: "British Army Hands Back Last Headquarters In Germany"

chimera

LE
Moderator
There is a MQ Estate at Boscombe Down, which presumably originally supported the RAF base, but is now primarily used by the Army and has been for some years.
Boscombe is still an RAF base. the MQ are already used as spill over for Larkhill.

And you think you can fit a whole Brigade (all ranks) into what is left in there?
 
Boscombe is still an RAF base. the MQ are already used as spill over for Larkhill.

And you think you can fit a whole Brigade (all ranks) into what is left in there?
I was answering the specific subject of RAF MQs. The new Estates at Bulford, Larkhill and Ludgershall (equating to c900+ new SFA) is all about supporting the return of 20 Bde under ABP. The new Ashworth estate at Tidworth was also taken into the Army Basing Programme but was originally being delivered under PAC. Bottom line is there should be sufficient SFA to support BFG drawdown, but as already stated in this thread, they are probably not all of the required size in terms of numbers if bedrooms, storage space etc.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
Re-populate Imber, you know it makes sense.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
Bottom line is there should be sufficient SFA to support BFG drawdown, but as already stated in this thread, they are probably not all of the required size in terms of numbers if bedrooms, storage space etc.
But not it the right place at the right time. Surplus SFA left over from obscure airbases in obscure places isn't going to work. MQ around Salisbury Plain - sorry but the cupbaord was bare, and has been for decades. OK if you really want to be pedantic, the MOD did sell off some of the Zouch Estate in Tidworth around 1992, but otherwise, if UK PLC wanted to take want remained of BFG and put it in Catterick (4 Bde) and Tid/Bul (what was left of 7 and 20 Bde) there needed to be some development. Don't knock it - it doesn't look so bad for those that are moving in to new builds.

We cannot keep on churning out the old time worn cliches: This is 2020; The Annington Homes sell off dates back to the Blair SDR of 1997; Project A-C dates back to 2006 (when Gordon Brown was PM) so it would be fair to say that the political landscape has moved somewhat since then (including the strategic decison to pull out of Germany made by the Con/Lib Coalition in 2010)

So to return to your original point (which was spefically about spare RAF capacity) - where are the hundreds of surplus RAF SFA around Salisbury Plain that Defence needed to house all of what remained in Germany after Osnabruk closed and 4 Bde went to Catterick ten years ago (and also to house the concentration of Army HQ in Andover vice Wilton and MOD London), plus various Joint units in Upavon?

Answers on a post card......
 
But not it the right place at the right time. Surplus SFA left over from obscure airbases in obscure places isn't going to work. MQ around Salisbury Plain - sorry but the cupbaord was bare, and has been for decades. OK if you really want to be pedantic, the MOD did sell off some of the Zouch Estate in Tidworth around 1992, but otherwise, if UK PLC wanted to take want remained of BFG and put it in Catterick (4 Bde) and Tid/Bul (what was left of 7 and 20 Bde) there needed to be some development. Don't knock it - it doesn't look so bad for those that are moving in to new builds.

We cannot keep on churning out the old time worn cliches: This is 2020; The Annington Homes sell off dates back to the Blair SDR of 1997; Project A-C dates back to 2006 (when Gordon Brown was PM) so it would be fair to say that the political landscape has moved somewhat since then (including the strategic decison to pull out of Germany made by the Con/Lib Coalition in 2010)

So to return to your original point (which was spefically about spare RAF capacity) - where are the hundreds of surplus RAF SFA around Salisbury Plain that Defence needed to house all of what remained in Germany after Osnabruk closed and 4 Bde went to Catterick ten years ago (and also to house the concentration of Army HQ in Andover vice Wilton and MOD London), plus various Joint units in Upavon?

Answers on a post card......
A few errors here. The quarters were sold under the Major government in 1996. There are no 'single service' SFA as such; quite a few of the SFA at Lyneham was sold off years ago along with the RAF Hospital Wroughton SFA. But I agree, the gross ineptness of DIO and Service workforce planners is unbelievable.
 

chimera

LE
Moderator
A few errors here. The quarters were sold under the Major government in 1996. There are no 'single service' SFA as such; quite a few of the SFA at Lyneham was sold off years ago along with the RAF Hospital Wroughton SFA. But I agree, the gross ineptness of DIO and Service workforce planners is unbelievable.
We are violently agreeing. My retort was to the Op who stated that there were "surplus RAF SFA around Salisbury Plain" to house 20 Bde (in 2020), whereas, (a) as you say the Estate is actually Defence managed and (b) there aren't any anyway.

I am not sure it would have been realistic to have kept on te MQ estate in Wroughton after it closed in 1996, on the off chance that twenty fours years later an Army brigade might be re-housed from Germany.
 
We are violently agreeing. My retort was to the Op who stated that there were "surplus RAF SFA around Salisbury Plain" to house 20 Bde (in 2020), whereas, (a) as you say the Estate is actually Defence managed and (b) there aren't any anyway.

I am not sure it would have been realistic to have kept on te MQ estate in Wroughton after it closed in 1996, on the off chance that twenty fours years later an Army brigade might be re-housed from Germany.
We were in quarters there until 2003. They were sold about 10 years ago.
 
Any MQ at Old Sarum? ex RAF Compton Basset were used by Lyneham and Army, I guess ex RAF Melksham and Yatesbury also sold ages ago. Wilton MQ's ?
 
I live just outside Bulford and Tidworth in the Bourne Valley. Granted, I’m in my own gaffe, not a MQ, but me and the Frau are very happy with Wiltshire, having chosen to settle here almost 20 years ago. What’s not to like? Great connections to the West Country and London, lovely countryside, great pubs and multiple dog walking options.
Now, if they would just reduce the number of Army personnel, it would be perfect! :smile:


Don't worry mate, 5-10 years we won't have an Army at all.
 
So to return to your original point (which was spefically about spare RAF capacity)
I think you’ll find that point was made by @SkippedOnce in Post No 3 in the thread.
I made a comment about Boscombe Down SFA, but am in general agreement with your view.
 
A few errors here. The quarters were sold under the Major government in 1996. There are no 'single service' SFA as such; quite a few of the SFA at Lyneham was sold off years ago along with the RAF Hospital Wroughton SFA. But I agree, the gross ineptness of DIO and Service workforce planners is unbelievable.
how very dare you! The finest minds run forces accommodation!
Minds that can send a contracted plumber all the way from Cheltenham to Baker Barracks Thorney to fix a leaking ballcock after hours. That’s service for you.
that level of incompetence doesn’t just happen you know!
 
I went for weeks with a condemned gas hob three years ago; as land lord ourselves we could have been prosecuted if we expected our tenants to use a condemned gas appliance. There was a batch of dodgy hobs on our SFA patch that did not have safety cut offs - most were eventually replaced, but only after DIO were told in no uncertain terms that his would be leaked to the tabloids. They had been installed as part of an upgrade only months earlier...
how very dare you! The finest minds run forces accommodation!
Minds that can send a contracted plumber all the way from Cheltenham to Baker Barracks Thorney to fix a leaking ballcock after hours. That’s service for you.
that level of incompetence doesn’t just happen you know!
hob
 
I went for weeks with a condemned gas hob three years ago; as land lord ourselves we could have been prosecuted if we expected our tenants to use a condemned gas appliance. There was a batch of dodgy hobs on our SFA patch that did not have safety cut offs - most were eventually replaced, but only after DIO were told in no uncertain terms that his would be leaked to the tabloids. They had been installed as part of an upgrade only months earlier...

hob
cheer up, a small bunch of nice 3 & 4 bed semi MQs a few roads down from me were fully refurbished last year, then sold off - to eager BTL landlords.
incompetence, or corrupt? More likely the former.
 
Er no there aren't.

RAF quarters on Salisbury Plain? I suppose there was RAF Upavon (Army since 1993) RAF Andover (closed in 1997) RAF Netheravon (transferred to Army in 1963) or maybe RAF Larkhill (closed 1942)? Middle Wallop MQ are now used as overspill for Army HQ in Andover.

Although the announcement is about Bielefeld, the expansion of Tidworth, Bulford and Perham Down with new barracks and MQs is for 20 Bde coming out of Paderborn.
If I remember right, some of the AMQs (horrible RAF phrase) at Upavon would be nearly 100 years old. I am sure there was a terrace of them that had 1920s dates on the buildings. It's been a long time since I was there, so maybe they're been replaced. But looking at GE, I can't see much in the way of new build.

All the 1930s build RAF camps will have 90ish year old infra. Must cost the earth to bring them up to spec.
 
cheer up, a small bunch of nice 3 & 4 bed semi MQs a few roads down from me were fully refurbished last year, then sold off - to eager BTL landlords.
incompetence, or corrupt? More likely the former.
Yes, but were they still owned by the MOD? There are very, very few SFA in England that are stilled owned by MOD.
 
...and we're back in Germany...

Up to 140 vehicles on exercise 24 weeks per year. How many soldiers will need to be permanently stationed there to support this? New MQs? A NAAFI supermarket?
 

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