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Greater Manchester Police Farce

His force stopped an investigation (Rochdale) citing lack of resourses plus the problem of CSA in South Manchester was well known about by police and social services. The latter covered this up in the family courts and the courts by nature being in camera the public were unaware of the crimes commited.

Yet again, conflating two entirely separate issues.
 
Yet again conflating two entirely separate issues.

It’s about double standards, he resigned, accepted responsibility, most politicians don’t and deflect downwards.

People on here calling for his sacking, demotion and withdrawal of pension. But some will happily say that Ministers can’t be held responsible for what their subordinates do.
 
His force stopped an investigation (Rochdale) citing lack of resourses plus the problem of CSA in South Manchester was well known about by police and social services. The latter covered this up in the family courts and the courts by nature being in camera the public were unaware of the crimes commited.

Was he with GMP then, and if he was, what was his involvement in that?
 
"He was appointed deputy chief constable of Greater Manchester Police in December 2011 with responsibility for force performance, the Force Change Programme and corporate communications.£

From wike, now don't tell me CSA has stopped in the GMP force area?

2011 was the year that the first grooming gang trials and convictions really started after the police in some areas were woefully inadequate and failed.

Of course it hasn’t stopped, it goes on everywhere, but is now treated and resourced much differently.

What has that got to do with data failures under The Home Office Crime Recording Standards (HOCRS) for which he accepted responsibility and resigned?
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Even if they had fired him, he was 30 years plus and would have received his pension. He resigned, he didn’t bullshit and deflect he took responsibility.

I’m going to hazard a guess that most on here don’t properly know what the report is actually saying his Force did wrong. I’m sure plenty think they know.
It’s a pity he didn’t take responsibility when he was in the job. He had at least two warning over this matter and still the force failed to address the points and issues raised.
He failed to take responsibility and was able to take the easy way out which is typical of senior officers.
It’s a neglect of duty what he did, what was he doing all day? Arranging his tee times at his golf club, eating the chocolate biscuits his secretary brings him with his coffee because it appears he wasn’t paying much attention to the day to day administration of the job.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
It’s about double standards, he resigned, accepted responsibility, most politicians don’t and deflect downwards.

People on here calling for his sacking, demotion and withdrawal of pension. But some will happily say that Ministers can’t be held responsible for what their subordinates do.
Ffs every other force manages and keeps these figures up to date and manages to report crimes when they should be. I haven’t a clue how the coppers on the street managed to result all these calls with “no crime“, “no call for police action”. It’s quite incredible what has been going on there all these years.
Don‘t make excuses for him.
 
The Inspectorate found that one in five crimes was not being reported by GMP.

That's after finding the same issues in the 2018 follow up to the 2016 inspection which found the same issue in 2015.

That's indicative of a serious failure to lead and command.
 
Ffs every other force manages and keeps these figures up to date and manages to report crimes when they should be. I haven’t a clue how the coppers on the street managed to result all these calls with “no crime“, “no call for police action”. It’s quite incredible what has been going on there all these years.
Don‘t make excuses for him.

Every force has HOCRS breaches, admittedly not on the scale of GMP, however a few years ago, many forces were very bad.

I don’t know when you retired, but I’m fairly sure that it was before the full time office teams that knew HOCRS inside out were made redundant or moved in order to save money and keep officers on the frontline. However the responsibility for CR was then given to officers, who invariably didn’t understand it fully.
 
The Inspectorate found that one in five crimes was not being reported by GMP.

That's after finding the same issues in the 2018 follow up to the 2016 inspection which found the same issue in 2015.

That's indicative of a serious failure to lead and command.

What do you actually think that means in reality?
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Every force has HOCRS breaches, admittedly not on the scale of GMP, however a few years ago, many forces were very bad.

I don’t know when you retired, but I’m fairly sure that it was before the full time office teams that knew HOCRS inside out were made redundant or moved in order to save money and keep officers on the frontline. However the responsibility for CR was then given to officers, who invariably didn’t understand it fully.
Bit it's not HOCRS but the iOps system. This was GMPs system.


 
Bit it's not HOCRS but the iOps system.


Seriously?

HOCRS, is a 48 page policy document, iOps appears to be the software system that GMP use to work on. They aren’t the same thing.

Poor resourcing of the matter, an inadequate or wrongly set up IT System and deciding to spend money on other more pressing matters is probably the reason for the data failures.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Seriously?

HOCRS, is a 48 page policy document, iOps appears to be the software system that GMP use to work on. They aren’t the same thing.

Poor resourcing of the matter, an inadequate or wrongly set up IT System and deciding to spend money on other more pressing matters is probably the reason for the data failures.
there iOps system failed and more importantly failed the victims of crimes. More like poor management fo the system from the system managers to the chief con.

Are you Hopkins and if so I clain my one groat.
 
there iOps system failed and more importantly failed the victims of crimes. More like poor management fo the system from the system managers to the chief con.

Are you Hopkins and if so I clain my one groat.

And he accepted responsibility and resigned. What’s your point?
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Every force has HOCRS breaches, admittedly not on the scale of GMP, however a few years ago, many forces were very bad.

I don’t know when you retired, but I’m fairly sure that it was before the full time office teams that knew HOCRS inside out were made redundant or moved in order to save money and keep officers on the frontline. However the responsibility for CR was then given to officers, who invariably didn’t understand it fully.
I should imagine even a prob knew a crime when someone told them about it.
I’m at a loss as to why you are defending this incompetent excuse for a Chief Constable. Blaming it on IT issues takes the biscuit, yes every Division had its own crime desk when I was a copper and yes they decided what action was to be taken, screened in or out and what squad got it, quite a good system really.
It doesn’t really matter if those have been done away with, what matters is that the new system works, if it doesn’t then the chap in charge needs to take action not just sit there with his thumb up his arse and his mind in neutral.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
That he was incompetant and probably has been since he was appointed in 2011.
.

When are you going to send my groat?
He (the ex CC) was probably one of those that was promoted out of harms way, trouble is someone forgot to put the brakes on.
 
I should imagine even a prob knew a crime when someone told them about it.
I’m at a loss as to why you are defending this incompetent excuse for a Chief Constable. Blaming it on IT issues takes the biscuit, yes every Division had its own crime desk when I was a copper and yes they decided what action was to be taken, screened in or out and what squad got it, quite a good system really.
It doesn’t really matter if those have been done away with, what matters is that the new system works, if it doesn’t then the chap in charge needs to take action not just sit there with his thumb up his arse and his mind in neutral.

Imagine a call from a member of the public, it lasts 10 minutes and covers the latest specific incident and the previous 5 years, during which they actually disclose 5 crimes or more, all of which need to be separately recorded and categorised. A number of them have exceeded the 6 month limit so will never be investigated, but must never the less be correctly recorded, taking time and resources.

They miss the harassment or the crim dam, but never less deploy, and deal with the latest incident correctly. That is potentially a number of crimes not recorded. The officer who attends the latest job, is allocated the whole lot and has to sit and work out what needs recording and what doesn’t.

Not straightforward and very time consuming, is that what you want your cops sat doin

Whilst calling, a child can be heard crying in the background, the call taker asks the caller what’s happening, the caller says, Jayden has just pinched Chardonnay on the arm and it’s gone red. What crime do you record for that or do you record a crime?

I can give you numerous scenarios that are counter intuitive.
 
Women rings police and states her husband has raped her tonight, she goes on to say that over the last 10 years he has GBH’d her numerous times, stolen from her, damaged her property and harassed her, also he pushed her around every day, amounting to common assault.

What crimes do you record?
 

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