Great Help

#1
It doesn't exactly encourage people to try for help when this happens. I think it's wrong and don't understand the thinking of the local plod. I don't think his brief was any good either.

Cumberland News | Anger at prosecution of Carlisle former soldier who handed himself in

Anger at prosecution of Carlisle former soldier who handed himself in
Exclusive By Phil Coleman
Last updated at 15:03, Thursday, 18 April 2013

A depressed former soldier who handed himself in to the police for help has been taken to court after damaging a "safety suit" given to him for his own protection.



Ryan Dennis Webb, 28, who served as a professional soldier for 11 years, was locked up at his own request on Saturday night after becoming over-emotional, Carlisle magistrates court heard.

After taking him back to the Durranhill Police HQ, police officers who feared that he may harm himself confiscated his clothes and put him into a padded suit.

After watching a CCTV image of him ripping the suit while he was in his cell shortly after 6am, he was prosecuted for criminal damage.

Webb, who has done tours of duty in Iraq and Northern Ireland and has lost friends in combat, said that he now feels he was let down.

He went to the police for help because he was feeling agitated, he said.

“They should have arranged to get me help,” he told the News & Star. “That’s what I expected to happen. I completed a questionnaire with a nurse at the police station but I didn’t expect them to charge me. I pleaded guilty to get it over with.”

In court yesterday, he admitted the offence on the basis that he was reckless.

He was fined £260 and told to pay £85 court costs and a £26 victim surcharge. He was also ordered to pay £55 compensation for the damaged suit.

After the case, Webb’s wife Beverley, 28, criticised the decision to prosecute her husband, saying he had been punished despite having acted responsibly by going to the police for help.

Prosecutor Pam Ward said Webb, of Whernside, Morton, had approached police officers in Botchergate in the early hours of Sunday morning, telling officers he felt unwell and was frightened of what he might do.
He was arrested to prevent a breach of the peace and taken into custody.

Mrs Ward said that he then had his clothes taken off him to prevent him harming himself and was given a safety suit, which he later damaged by trying to put his legs through the arm holes.

Defence lawyer Laura Harper told the court her client, who was out drinking in Botchergate on Saturday, asked for help because he felt “angry and upset.”

Though he had consumed eight pints, he felt he was not drunk, she said.

The lawyer said: “He knew something wasn’t right, and genuinely feared for either his own or other people’s safety.He was recently diagnosed with depression and anxiety, and he suffers flashbacks. The alcohol and his medication did not help matters. He actually handed himself in to the police. He can’t explain his actions in the cell and can only think it was down to his heightened emotional state. It’s worth noting he was not charged with a breach of the peace.”

Speaking after the case, Mrs Webb said: “I think it’s disgusting that they charged him with this. It just wasn’t appropriate because he’d gone to them for help.”

Webb, now a lorry driver, served with the 1st Battalion Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment. He may now appeal against the conviction on the basis was not fully mentally aware of his actions while in the cell.
A Cumbria Police spokeswoman said: “Ryan Webb was arrested for his own safety and brought into police custody where he received medical attention. Police carried out a risk assessment and due to the risks that he presented to himself, Ryan Webb was given a police safety suit to wear. This is a padded suit that is made of very strong ‘rip stop’ material that is designed to be durable and comfortable for anyone who could potentially harm themselves. The suits are essential for use in police custody suites and are expensive to replace so Webb was charged with criminal damage.”


First published at 11:41, Thursday, 18 April 2013
Published by http://www.newsandstar.co.uk
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#2
He was drunk and damaged Police property, what did he expect? I suppose when he was feeling so emotional, perhaps he shouldn't have got drunk.
 
#3
Fair enough. He went to police for help in the first instance and he could have called for help a second time from the Detention Officer- instead of tearing the suit up (good effort mind, those things are tough).

It's a bit surprising that he had the chance to rip it up considering he would certainly should) have been on constant, or 5 minute watch.
 
#5
Can he not just use that well versed get out of jail free card - PTSD.

The man's an ex soldier therefore a hero, get him a council house immediately.

Kudos on him not using that route. I do know local RBL are terrible up there but I never tried the local SSAFA office.

It may be he does need extra help or he's not ready for it yet.

I can't understand how he was not not stopped. I would have thought if someone has declared a need for help that there would have been some sort of supervision but then again this is Carlisle.

I think jarrod's answer too glib. He started trashing the kit 7 hours into custody - I have no experience in this area so can't make a definite comment. If someone is seeking help, even if boozed up, then you don't hammer him down.

I do know local mental health is very poor in the area. Before things changed there were multiple prosecutions of staff in mental health due toteh way patients were being treated/handled. After things changed to the newer system I know of at least one case which lead to death due to refusal to assist after a request to section.
 
#6
... I know of at least one case which lead to death due to refusal to assist after a request to section.
The thing that's puzzling me is, why was he arrested when he should have been detained under the Mental Health Act? Is it some procedural thing where he can't be sectioned until seen by a doctor and one was on the way, and arrest is the only course open to the Plebs; or was it something else?
 
#7
Good question, Joe. I hope more information will come to light in the coming weeks. When I find out more I will share what I can.
 
#9
It doesnt say he was arrested (at least before the trashing of the suit) acording to the report he "handed himself in" and the police detained him (without arresting him) I assume they were waiting for a medical opinion before doing anything else

As he was able to trash this "restraint Suit" either it wasnt put on correctly or the Police should be suing the makers under the trades description act.
 
#12
The thing that's puzzling me is, why was he arrested when he should have been detained under the Mental Health Act? Is it some procedural thing where he can't be sectioned until seen by a doctor and one was on the way, and arrest is the only course open to the Plebs; or was it something else?
He could only be detained under the MHA if the officers thought he was suffering from a mental disorder. If they didn't ie perhaps they just though he was drunk and emotional then perhaps they did the next best thing for his own welfare. Secondly once in custody he cannot be assessed or sectioned whilst under the influence of alcohol. Then if all risks are removed and he is in safety suit a constant watch is not required. Finally if someone is going apeshit and destroying a suit or property in the cell then unless there is a risk to them do not enter as this will only inflame the situation. The decision to prosecute was wrong, but the care was correct.
 
#14
Hi Guys,

I happen to be Ryan Dennis Webb who was arrested, I came across this article googling my charge. To clarify a few things with you as there are a few "theories" that are incorrect.

So here we go I was out in Carlisle, and honestly never had alot to drink, 8 pints was correct but they were staggered from 4pm in the afternoon, anyways at about 0230 I was on my way home in a taxi and I had a disagreement with the driver because he was heading to currock and I live near morton....totally different ways, I told him not to rip me off and he got Irate, I then told him to go where he is told, "I pay you drive" were the exact words, anyways this annoyed him andhe kicked me out of his taxi at the bottom of botchergate and speeded off to th rank, by now I was in a rage, I honestly wanted to kill him, I just felt pure rage and fear, and a feeling I could only compare to being in Iraq, I spoke to police and told them the story, and said I need help, I feel angry and will do something terrible, either here or even in my home where my wife and child were, I was soo agitated and my mind was eating away at me in my head, i felt dissassociated. So they arrested me for prevention of breach of the peace, took me to the station and made me wear this suit...which should be made by armani considering how much I am paying back for it!!! So here I am in the cell alone, agitated, rocking on the floor like a lunatic, i needed help or somebody to talk to aw promised did I get it...no, i pressed the intercom which they ignored and they even turned the cell light of, it made my even more hysterical and I taken the "suicide suit" off and taken it apart...why? I dont know, i was still confused, i needed attention and maybe thats why I did it. They then came in and taken it off me as well as my matress and pillow...if you can call it a pillow, more like concrete bag!

In the morning I get charged with criminal damage NOT prevention of Breach of peace, which is not even a law as I searched the gov litigation website, so I was basically locked up and put in a situation illegally and against my will, I wanted help not seclusion, no wonder people go crazy because they get tossed aside and neglected.

So that should Iron out a few creases and filter some of the chinese whispers out. Can anybody help me both mentally as this is something which has been building up further and further, not just aggresion but I seriously think Im losing my mind, I feel less interested in aything I enjoyed and its destroying my life. And is it worth me appealing? I had to plead guilty because I was filmed in front of the cctv in my cell however, I cant recall doing it, I just had th feeling, lik fight or flight. Im not a wreckless person and I treat people and property with respect.....unless its a clapped out old bedford!

Thanks guys and any help, advic or support would be appreciated. And Ill ignore the abusivepratts who like to kick somebody when there down, because they aint happy with there own lives and try put others down for there own satisfaction.

Cheers

Ryan
1KORBR
 
#16
I don't think you can appeal if you've pleaded guilty, a solicitor should be able to advise better. FWIW I believe you should have pleaded not guilty as not having the mental capacity (mens rea) at the time of committing the act, but it's a bit late now. For the future always use the duty solicitor at court (free).
Good luck on getting help (and as you're paying insist on having the suit as a trophy).
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Webby

Its not too late to appeal but do it soon, however pleading guilty in the first place makes the reasons for appeal difficult. Essentially there is no grounds for overturning the result as no evidence was contested. Some bright spark lawyer may know different. One possible route is to contest the severity of the sentence. A caution or a conditional discharge seems about right if there was some underlying mental affectation.
 
#19
Breach of peace, which is not even a law as I searched the gov litigation website, so I was basically locked up and put in a situation illegally and against my will, I wanted help not seclusion, no wonder people go crazy because they get tossed aside and neglected.
Don't be silly. It may be an extra judicial tool used by police to prevent an offence, but it is perfectly legal.
 
#20
I don't think you can appeal if you've pleaded guilty, a solicitor should be able to advise better. FWIW I believe you should have pleaded not guilty as not having the mental capacity (mens rea) at the time of committing the act, but it's a bit late now. For the future always use the duty solicitor at court (free).
Good luck on getting help (and as you're paying insist on having the suit as a trophy).
Webby can appeal after he pleaded guilty, but the appeal would be against the sentence. Leave for appeal against the conviction is possible but it a rare occurrence.

Webby can do this himself, but as in all cases regarding law he would best be advised to get a brief involved.

And Webby, don't post anything specific regarding your case on here (or anywhere else) It may hinder any appeal you are considering mate. Don't start flapping about the Breech of the Peace stuff, It's a technical arrest under common law, it shouldn't go before a magistrate, as a prisoner is released when the probability of any breech has passed and it appears that the correct procedure was carried out in your case.

Good luck.
 

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