Grant immunity from prosecution for military, whilst on Govt Duty

#21
Are we yet at the point when we ask the OP if he feels the thread is going as expected?
I must admit, that I had expected some debate on the topic, but perhaps not as much as has been raised.
I was looking to raise awareness of the issues, as "Facebook" seemed to be flooded with serving and ex military showing disgust with what is currently going on in regards to reopening of Op Banner cases.
I agree with a few comments about it being a "bit open", but as I said earlier, you are limited to the amount of words you can use, and actually it was amended slightly, as the original petition mentioned the actions of a now "disgraced and former" lawyer who tried to prosecute soldiers for alleged abused committed in Iraq
 
#22
It’s fishing.

I could see a variant of the petition working if it rejected alleged crimes not notified to the relevant authorities within a given time period.

It would prevent Shiner types touting around to find Ali who was allegedly beaten up by squaddies ten years ago.
This is the "sub-text" that goes with the heading, which by implication gives people a time limit to notify authorities of an "alleged" offence.
"A statutory time limit of 5 years to be applied and back-dated in regards to the rights of people to bring prosecutions for alleged offences committed by members of the British Military taking part in Govt Sanctioned Operations. After this period, the military should be exempt from prosecution."
 
#23
This is the "sub-text" that goes with the heading, which by implication gives people a time limit to notify authorities of an "alleged" offence.
"A statutory time limit of 5 years to be applied and back-dated in regards to the rights of people to bring prosecutions for alleged offences committed by members of the British Military taking part in Govt Sanctioned Operations. After this period, the military should be exempt from prosecution."
I did read it. Which is why I am disagreeing with it.

Exemption from prosecution should not occur in cases of murder, rape or severe violence. The definition in the petition is far too much a case of blanket coverage for all crimes.

We have covered rape. Another example might be video or photographs of murder or torture that come to light in the future.

I think the 5 years is too long. After all, if you are the victim of a serious crime why would you not notify some authority immediately. I guess the fog of war might make this problematic in many case so maybe something like 18-24 months.
 
#24
Tedsson, I am sure that there are loads of examples that could be omitted, and in regards to 5 years, well you have to select a certain amount of time. The main thing is to get them to debate the issue, rather than sweeping it under the carpet.
There is also a similar petition running that currently has 20K plus signatures, that was signed of by the HoC petition committee 4 days before this one.
At least we can try and raise the matter, rather than just ranting on Facebook or at the Daily Wail and Sun !!!!
Petition: British Soldiers who served in N. Ireland must have immunity from prosecution.
 

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#26
I was looking to raise awareness of the issues, as "Facebook" seemed to be flooded with serving and ex military showing disgust with what is currently going on in regards to reopening of Op Banner cases.
What do you reckon then? Blanket amnesty from prosecution because of the job people used to do?
 
#28
I think the key issue here is Op Banner, and the consequences of the Good Friday Agreement.
Clearly, the treatment of the terrorists of all flavours, and of British forces is inequitable and inherently unjust.

Secondly, although LOAC must remain the ruling concept, there needs to be some recognition that there is a moral distinction between a private individual who choses to involve himself in an 'armed struggle' and someone serving the Crown, sent into harms way by HM government. Lastly, courts must recognise that snap decisions taken in the heat of battle by someone whose life could be in immediate danger may not look great when examined in forensic detail decades later, but soldiers can only react to the information they have at the time.
 
#29
The point with the Op Banner actions is that it’s an attempt to keep things politicised. As noted previously, many of the cases currently being regurgitated (a fair description) have already been thoroughly investigated and put to bed. British soldiers were held to a far higher level of scrutiny than the ‘freedom fighters’ so beloved of Corbyn, et al..

Blair cocked up royally, however he may squeal the difference. This is the result. But the current government should be taking a far more robust stance in this instance.

I’d make a comparison with Stop & Search. A vociferous minority, for its own, twisted ends, bangs on about ‘injustice’. Put it to the majority, and I’ll wager that they think it’s a good thing.

It’s the same with the current Op Banner actions: I’ll again wager that the vast majority on both sides of the sectarian divide in NI would be quite happy to allow old soldiers to just live out their days.

As to the OP’s question: give your head a wobble. Criminal actions don’t stop being criminal just because someone puts on a uniform. That way lies banana republic-ism.
 
#30
I see police drivers are to get special dispensation if they’re driving fast...
This stems from a case where a cop was prosecuted after chasing an idiot riding dangerously on a bike, contact occurred, the biker fell off and broke his leg.
 
#31
I think the key issue here is Op Banner, and the consequences of the Good Friday Agreement.
Clearly, the treatment of the terrorists of all flavours, and of British forces is inequitable and inherently unjust.
I was going to wade in but @CivvyPete summed it up perfectly. The petition is a no from me, but there should be way where servicemen are treated equally with the scumbag terrorists (on both sides of the divide).
 
#32
I think the 5 years is too long. After all, if you are the victim of a serious crime why would you not notify some authority immediately.
The obvious answers are a) murder where you can't notify and it may take time for the circumstances to come to light that show a crime, as opposed to accident, occurred: b) rape where women are too ashamed to admit the incident occurred and/or believe the justice systems attitude will be 'she was the cause of her own misfortunes'.
 
#33
I see police drivers are to get special dispensation if they’re driving fast...
Do you have a link to that GF.

I have a degree of sympathy with that. Simply because they never intended to commit a crime and are in pursuit of a criminal. They never intend to break the law in a fast pursuit so there was no intention on their part, unlike the crooks.

Probably restrict it to trained high speed drivers in suitable vehicles rather than any plod in a noddy car though.

Ultimately it should boil down to “was what they did suitable and appropriate in that situation within the terms of their standards and procedures”.
 
#34
Do you have a link to that GF.

I have a degree of sympathy with that. Simply because they never intended to commit a crime and are in pursuit of a criminal. They never intend to break the law in a fast pursuit so there was no intention on their part, unlike the crooks.

Probably restrict it to trained high speed drivers in suitable vehicles rather than any plod in a noddy car though.

Ultimately it should boil down to “was what they did suitable and appropriate in that situation within the terms of their standards and procedures”.
New rules to protect police chase drivers
 
#35
I see police drivers are to get special dispensation if they’re driving fast...
There is a difference between flattening someone accidentally while driving too fast for a good reason and (for example) torturing someone to death, wouldn't you say?
 
#36
I see police drivers are to get special dispensation if they’re driving fast...
But not carte Blanche

Is it legitimate to drag off your enemy after wounding them, hide from overwatch, turn off cameras (badly), conspire to murder, murder, confess on the camera that you thought was off and carry out your conspiracy of silence - because you’re a ‘hero’?

Unlike all the other ‘heroes’ before and after you who have the ability to control themselves through the heat of battle and are capable of administering aid to their enemy or let you have the dignity of dieing as you are instead of executing
 
#37
I was going to wade in but @CivvyPete summed it up perfectly. The petition is a no from me, but there should be way where servicemen are treated equally with the scumbag terrorists (on both sides of the divide).
British service personnel are treated as equally as Loyalists post 1998.. both get 2 year sentences for pre 1998 crimes if convicted.

Provo's get a thank you for your service letter from the Labour party.
 
#39
How does that work then given that nobody in NI votes for the Labour Party?
So Mr Blair and Co never invited Uncle Jerry round for an afternoon cuppa and a load of post it notes with get outta jail stamps on them?
 

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