GPS jammers vs. GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP)

#1
AFAIK the bomb is guided by no system other than GPS. Given that Iran has already demonstrated the ability to spoof GPS signals*, it is an even simpler task to jam them.

It would cost a dime a dozen to put a GPS jammer/spoofer on an unmanned technical and drive it around in silly circles. When one gets hit by an ARM missile, send out another one. They'd win the economic war if they kept it up - how much does a pickup with a GPS jammer/spoofer cost, vs. a MOP or AGM-88?

How confident are we that if war kicks off, the US will be able to land the MOPs accurately?

*US spy drone hijacked with GPS spoof hack, report says ? The Register
 
#4
Wiki Wiki Wiki!

GPS Spoofing

A GPS spoofing attack attempts to deceive a GPS receiver by broadcasting a slightly more powerful signal than that received from the GPS satellites, structured to resemble a set of normal GPS signals. These spoofed signals, however, are modified in such a way as to cause the receiver to determine its position to be somewhere other than where it actually is, specifically somewhere determined by the attacker. Because GPS systems work by measuring the time it takes for a signal to travel from the satellite to the receiver, a successful spoofing requires that the attacker know precisely where the target is so that the spoofed signal can be structured with the proper signal delays. A GPS spoofing attack begins by broadcasting a slightly more powerful signal that produces the correct position, and then slowly deviates away towards the position desired by the spoofer, because moving too quickly will cause the receiver to lose signal lock altogether, at which point the spoofer works only as a jammer. It has been suggested that the capture of a Lockheed RQ-170 drone aircraft in northeastern Iran in December, 2011, was the result of such an attack.[SUP][3][/SUP] GPS spoofing attacks had been predicted and discussed in the GPS community previously, but no known example of a malicious spoofing attack has yet been confirmed.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP]
Spoofing attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GPS spoofing countermeasures: Your smartphone already has them ? The Register

A lot GPS receivers ignore a significantly 'wrong' signal to take in to account various natural factors. That's why GPS receivers can actually work out what degree of error is in their position. I think min Foretrex averages at about 13m+/-.

Should have worked harder at school, shouldn't you.
 
#6
As you point out, the GPS spoofing countermeasures are known. So do you have an alternative theory as to how Iran managed to capture the RQ-170 without any apparent battle damage?

At the very least, the worst case scenario of a GPS denied environment should be assumed. It is easy to beat the signal strength of a satellite, with limited power supplies, 20km above the surface of the earth with a terrestrial jammer.
 
#8
As you point out, the GPS spoofing countermeasures are known. So do you have an alternative theory as to how Iran managed to capture the RQ-170 without any apparent battle damage?
It has been suggested that the capture of a Lockheed RQ-170 drone aircraft in northeastern Iran in December, 2011, was the result of such an attack.[SUP][3][/SUP] GPS spoofing attacks had been predicted and discussed in the GPS community previously, but no known example of a malicious spoofing attack has yet been confirmed.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP]
Did you miss that bit, just because Iran says they spoofed it, doesn't mean they did. Likewise they said a certain RN party were 'inside' Iranian waters...

All kinds of reasons why that drone came down, other than battle and other than GPS interferance.
 
#9
AFAIK it's GPS/INS so spoofing shouldn't come into it. The beummb will update itself and then rely on INS to hit the target. As for the sons of Xerxes spoofing the RQ-170, I have a bridge, would you like to buy it?
 
#10
Did you miss that bit, just because Iran says they spoofed it, doesn't mean they did. Likewise they said a certain RN party were 'inside' Iranian waters...

All kinds of reasons why that drone came down, other than battle and other than GPS interferance.

What does this have to do with the RN kidnapping? I didn't say I believed what Iran says, I'm saying that my theory is that the UAV was brought down by a spoofing attack...regardless of what Iran says.

If you think otherwise you are welcome to present a few alternative ways of downing the UAV without it sustaining combat damage. Landing UAVs without damage under controlled conditions in friendly airspace is already a bit more difficult than one might suppose.

For the record I think Iranians - their government, media and the few people I've had the misfortune of meeting - are liars and odious.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
I bet the septics still have plenty of Paveway kits in the stores to bolt on if their superbombs start going off course.
 
#12
What does this have to do with the RN kidnapping? I didn't say I believed what Iran says, I'm saying that my theory is that the UAV was brought down by a spoofing attack...regardless of what Iran says.

If you think otherwise you are welcome to present a few alternative ways of downing the UAV without it sustaining combat damage. Landing UAVs without damage under controlled conditions in friendly airspace is already a bit more difficult than one might suppose.

For the record I think Iranians - their government, media and the few people I've had the misfortune of meeting - are liars and odious.
You've noticed the wings seem to be taped back on I assume?
 
#13
You don't have to keep GPS switched on all the time to hit the target.

You need a brief updated picture of the terrain as a reference to create an offline map, you can't jam that as it's not reliant on being updated.

These things are controlled by people, jamming or spoofing the GPS isn't going to stop a human flying a UAV at you anymore than it would stop a manned ground attack aircraft.
 
#14
Wiki Wiki Wiki!

Spoofing attack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GPS spoofing countermeasures: Your smartphone already has them ? The Register

A lot GPS receivers ignore a significantly 'wrong' signal to take in to account various natural factors. That's why GPS receivers can actually work out what degree of error is in their position. I think min Foretrex averages at about 13m+/-.

Should have worked harder at school, shouldn't you.
When you have 6 to 8 satellites giving you one position, and 2 more are telling you you are 20 miles away, (for example, I know it would be a bit more subtle than that). I think that the 6 to 8 would rule, and the other 2 considered as flyers. Therefore you have a dynamic situation that unless you can spoof 8 to 10 satellites simultaneously , something is going to flag up as "not quite right".

You also need the military code, not the civvy one.

I am not saying it can't be done. but the logistics are massive.

Cheers
Gadge
 
#15
When you have 6 to 8 satellites giving you one position, and 2 more are telling you you are 20 miles away, (for example, I know it would be a bit more subtle than that). I think that the 6 to 8 would rule, and the other 2 considered as flyers. Therefore you have a dynamic situation that unless you can spoof 8 to 10 satellites simultaneously , something is going to flag up as "not quite right".

You also need the military code, not the civvy one.

I am not saying it can't be done. but the logistics are massive.

Cheers
Gadge
That's what I said...
 
#16
Even if they do manage to create a GPS free air space. Don't the Yanks use bolt one kits to turn slick bombs in to smart bombs, screw on a Paveway kit, laser the target and happy days. If they manage to jam the laser (im sure Iran will say they can), just use it as a slick bomb. With all the bells and whistles on the plane you can still get very close to target. Job done.

Or just nuke the **** out of them. How close do you want that bomb to get?
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Even if they do manage to create a GPS free air space. Don't the Yanks use bolt one kits to turn slick bombs in to smart bombs, screw on a Paveway kit, laser the target and happy days. If they manage to jam the laser (im sure Iran will say they can), just use it as a slick bomb. With all the bells and whistles on the plane you can still get very close to target. Job done.

Or just nuke the **** out of them. How close do you want that bomb to get?
**coughs modestly, points up**
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
bernoulli Classified Ads 2
T Weapons, Equipment & Rations 14
K Aviation 35

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top