Gp B Officers on your unit strength...

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by escape_artists_never_die, Mar 27, 2006.

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  1. I would like to know how common it is for Gp A units to accept Gp B Officers onto their strength... then allow the individual to remain with the UOTC. What are your thoughts and opinions. Some positives; it fills a LSN = good, well recruited, it advertises your capbadge amongst the UOTC, it could be a good long term investment once the individual has graduated etc.
  2. Dear EAND,

    Please see my post on your board.

    We offer 'facilities' to OTC Officers and PO's to train with us during holidays (and term time - but NOT in place of OTC training). However, all is above board, and the OTC is informed - AND agrees , prior to training taking place. The individual is held - and remains on the strength of the OTC, but The OTC gives permission for the individual to train with us.

    There are no smoke and mirrors, this is the way it has to be or the individual will not get paid, and perhaps more importantly is not insured.

    We talk to the OTC, otherwise how can they trust us? If you/others do not talk to your OTC, how can they or we, trust you?

    People may say 'No probs, we will get round this..', but the reality is that they can't. Either they are offering more than they can deliver (for all the right reasons), or they have got it wrong.

    Great to see people from an OTC (there myself), wanting to train with TA, but it is all above board. Of course it can be done, but not (normally) in quite the way you first suggested.
  3. msr

    msr LE

    They are called TASOs (TA Sponsored Officers) and are an excellent way to get a tab on those OCDTs who wish to join the TA when they leave Uni.

  4. msr,

    I believed that's what they were called but I'm assured that's the wrong term and there is no fixed scheme or term for it. TASO is, i'm told, PO's attached to the UOTC.
  5. Escape artist,

    You cannot transfer to a group A unit and remain as a group B officer. If you transfer to a group A unit your commission will change from group B to group A and will be gazetted as such. However, if you are still a student and you transfer, you will be granted an exemption from any mobilisation upon appeal based on the grounds that people in full time education cannot be mobilised.

    If you want to go to a group A unit but also go back and train with the UOTC only certain units will allow you to do this. Obviously because they are paying your MTDs it is coming out of their budget. There has to be some "pay back" for your shiney new unit. This may be in the form of attending annual camp / occasionally turning up for regimental weekends whilst you are attached to the UOTC. There is also a certain expectation in some regiments that you will cease training with the UOTC after a year with them and start training with your parent unit.

    Why bother transfering then?

    Group A bounty - £1200 TA vs £170 OTC (roll on April!!!)

    Commanding soldiers who are older / wiser / have more experience than you is a challenge, but infinatly more rewarding. Do you really want to command your mates from halls or men and women, a lot of whom are ex-reg and who will probably been on ops in warm and sandy places?

    Seniority date of your commission starts from when you transfer. As a group B 2Lt you will stay at that rank as long as you are group B (a UOTC badged officer), then if you transfer to the TA once you graduate, your probational year as a 2Lt still has to be done. You could end up being a one pip wonder for 4/5 years. If you transfer to group A whilst still at uni, this probational year is done and you get your shiney second pip once you graduate. No marking time.

    At group A units you get access to courses that OTCs would never get loaded onto due to their position in the pecking order. You can attend a special to arm platoon/troop commanders course.

    UOTCs are 150% over strength and as a result there is fierce competition to get on adventure training courses. Lots of students+lots of free time+student debts to pay= lots of trips to the Trg WO to book AT Cses. Most TA units are at 80% strength sadly, and TA soldiers have jobs to do during the week. This limits their ability to time off to actually do the AT courses themselves. This vastly increases your chances of getting away to do the gucci Power Boat handlers course (which I couldn't make it to damn it!) or the Ski leader course.

    The very nature of OTCs means that the training program becomes repetative. MTQ1/2/3 all have to be done every year and the longer you spend in the UOTC the less they can find for you to do because you have absorbed all that the instructors can teach you using the limited resources the unit has. In the TA you have people who have attended most weekends for up to 20 years. The training has to be new, interesting, challenging and relevant otherwise people will vote with their feet and you will be left with an empty drill hall on Tue/Wed nights.

    Bear in mind that this is all from a personal perspective but I think that it is relevant to most UOTC officers looking to go TA. I spent a year back with my UOTC whilst still badged R Signals and had a great time. I did realise that I wasn't learning anything new, but that year gave me a safe environment to 1) adjust to being an officer and not one of the lads, which I found hard and 2) make mistakes and learn from them .I then transfered to a group A unit and haven't looked back since. Yes, there is a big culture shock at first, but after a month you never look back. I haven't.

    Remember, JUO isn't a rank. It's a made up appointment and the only place that it warrents even the smallest ammount of respect is when you're a JUO at RMAS.
  6. S_C,

    Sorry, I know how and why after speaking to one of our Lt's and the Adjutant. I was just trying to gauge how common it is outside of 32 Sigs. Obviously the title of thread gives it away I wouldn't want to do it as a Pte, and come back to Tayforth - unlike some. JUO does have some use, the rank slide - the sheer confusion on peoples faces if they have no idea about the UOTC :D
  7. EAND - the TASO scheme has been piloted for a number of years by NUOTC and I believe is now being rolled out nationwide. The theory is that local TA units, backed by Bde, take a number (often 3 per major unit per year) of candidates onto strength as a result of the UOTC selection weekend. Ideal candidates are local or are likely to remain in the area after graduation and are not comitted to regular careers; serving TA soldiers are ideal.

    They are granted OCdt status and train with the UOTC with an option to train and socialise with their parent regiment. They are TA Gp A but, as S_C states they will be able to appeal any mobilisation of the grounds of full time education. The aspiration is that they will, towards the end of their degree course, attend TACC and begin to train more with their parent regiment than the UOTC but will form a useful link for recruiting and liaison between the regiment and the UOTC.

    The scheme takes a lot of commitment from the UOTC and the sponsor units but it can work. Be aware, though, they are Gp A TA throughout. Gp A TA units cannot hold Gp B soldiers on their establishment. Gp B officers and OCdts can train with TA units but, as GH says this has to be done on an 'above the board' basis and most TA units will view this as a preliminary to transferring to them.
  8. B_S,
    I think that's a cracking idea that your Bde have come up with. I certainly hope that it's rolled out across the TA. There is such a wastage from people who do OTC for 3/4 years and then graduate and never look at the TA again, if they do it's normally a few years later when they think to themselves "Hey I had a good time in the OTC, think I'll join the TA". With the current trend of dwindling numbers attending the TACC at RMAS there has to be a new and innovate way to get people into the system. Even if they don't want to commission, it's great to have intelligent, keen, young people in the ranks. It's pretty clear that the recruiting drive for DEPO scheme has yielded limited results compared to the spend on advertising. The numbers commissioning via the TAPO cse vs those going the OTC route (at least in Scotland) was extremely poor in 2003 (none) & 2004 (5) [Note this is not a pot shot at TAOC]. No doubt abacus will be along to correct me!

    When OCdts are confronted with the question of "Why don't you join the TA?", the most common answer was "Nobody asked". A TASO scheme would be able to bridge the gap between OTC and TA for a lot of people making the transition out of their comfort zone.
  9. msr

    msr LE

    TASO has been around for years, hasn't it?

  10. MSUOTC puts quite a few forward for TASO, and it seems like a really good scheme...