Govt to procure carriages for train companies

#1
Am a little confused why the cash-strapped govt are providing approx 2000 carriages for privatised train companies? Will UK tax
payers be buying lorries for Eddie Stobart next?

GBTD
 
#2
Ah well, it will be the usual incompetant bollocks, then, 7 years late and 100% overbudget and to the wrong specification!

Southern bought a load of electric trains a few years ago and they sat in sidings for ages because no one had realised that there wasn't enough juice in the third rail to drive them.
 
#3
Ah well, it will be the usual incompetant bollocks, then, 7 years late and 100% overbudget and to the wrong specification!

Southern bought a load of electric trains a few years ago and they sat in sidings for ages because no one had realised that there wasn't enough juice in the third rail to drive them.
Renationalise everything!!! How much money is going straight over to france via the french owned electricity companies?!
 
#4
We seem to have worst off all worlds at the moment - we tax payers put in money, train operating companies take out profit for providing crap service.
 
#5
'Renationalise everything!!! How much money is going straight over to france via the french owned electricity companies?!'

And who do you think is going to build the rolling stock? - French companies, we don't build trains over here any more.
 
#6
We seem to have worst off all worlds at the moment - we tax payers put in money, train operating companies take out profit for providing crap service.


PFI makes nationalization seem cheap.
 
#7
the train privatasation was a disaster and is still ongoing Railways have never really made money in this country and still don't
(take away the subsidy watch them fold)
given that it would be better if it was reunitied and renationalised service would improve a little as less money would be spent on shareholders and the "businesses"
 
#8
We seem to have worst off all worlds at the moment - we tax payers put in money, train operating companies take out profit for providing crap service.
As opposed to British Rail days when we, the tax payers put in the money and the government took the profit! Buy some shares!
 
#9
the train privatasation was a disaster and is still ongoing Railways have never really made money in this country and still don't
(take away the subsidy watch them fold)
given that it would be better if it was reunitied and renationalised service would improve a little as less money would be spent on shareholders and the "businesses"
I think that actually the nationalisation of the railways was the problem in the 40's, everything was private before that with firms like LMS and GWR own the infrastructure and traction with other firms paying them a subsidy to run on their infrastructure, the problem wasnt so much re-privatising the railway, it was the way they did it by creating Railtrack and 20 odd Toc'c and Foc's (Train/Freight Operating Companies) They should of kept it regional and sold the whole zone lock, stock.

The only way we will sort the railway out is to close the whole bloody lot for a couple of years and rebuild it, totally. Geographically it still runs where the Victorians wanted it to go - to the seaside! New lines need building, old lines need reopening.

Why is it though that people will sit in a traffic jam for hours and not really be that bothered about it but as soon as a train is late or delayed everyone creates merry hell!
 
#10
The only way we will sort the railway out is to close the whole bloody lot for a couple of years and rebuild it, totally. Geographically it still runs where the Victorians wanted it to go - to the seaside! New lines need building, old lines need reopening.

Yes. There's a big park in Leigh Park in Havant that was supposed to be the station for what was the 2nd biggest housing estate in Europe. It never got built, the traffic is horrendous and the mongs who plan these things keep saying 'why don't you use the train'?
 
#11
Ah well, it will be the usual incompetant bollocks, then, 7 years late and 100% overbudget and to the wrong specification!

Southern bought a load of electric trains a few years ago and they sat in sidings for ages because no one had realised that there wasn't enough juice in the third rail to drive them.
I worked for them and it's a bit more complicated than that.

It's all well and good having these extra carriages, but how are they going to be run? A passenger train can only be 12 carriages long at the most! Unless you want all the signal sections re-engineered, platforms extended/redesigned etc. then this is a non story. Aslo, who is actually going to own the new carriages? Non of the ToC's own any rolling stock - it is all leased from the two train lease companies, at extortionate prices! One is called Portabrooke - can't remember the other one.
 
#12
'Non of the ToC's own any rolling stock - it is all leased from the two train lease companies, at extortionate prices!' - Recce19, I didn't know that! The whole rail thing is a real bugger's muddle - a number of years ago I did a System Safety course and one of the examples was the Train Warning System (TPWS) which the company that I worked for then manufactured. I listened in amazement as it was revealed that everyone reported to everyone else but no one was actually responsible for anything! With regard to the power deficiencies, I do know that, once it became public, there was a crash programme to upgrade the power systems and the extra juice was provided very quickly.
 
#13
I think that actually the nationalisation of the railways was the problem in the 40's, everything was private before that with firms like LMS and GWR own the infrastructure and traction with other firms paying them a subsidy to run on their infrastructure, the problem wasnt so much re-privatising the railway, it was the way they did it by creating Railtrack and 20 odd Toc'c and Foc's (Train/Freight Operating Companies) They should of kept it regional and sold the whole zone lock, stock.

The only way we will sort the railway out is to close the whole bloody lot for a couple of years and rebuild it, totally. Geographically it still runs where the Victorians wanted it to go - to the seaside! New lines need building, old lines need reopening.

Why is it though that people will sit in a traffic jam for hours and not really be that bothered about it but as soon as a train is late or delayed everyone creates merry hell!
Nail-head

A bodged nationalisation followed 40 years later by a bodged re-privatisation is how we got where we are today.

Re-regionalise it, sell it regionally to the highest bidder, and try to get back to where we were before it was nationalised, temporary "government borrowing the railways during the wars and not maintaining it properly then handing it back in rag order to its owners" notwithstanding.
 
#14
Am a little confused why the cash-strapped govt are providing approx 2000 carriages for privatised train companies? Will UK tax
payers be buying lorries for Eddie Stobart next?

GBTD
I understand the reasoning is that the Train Companies wouldn't splash out unless their Franchise is extended. HM Government will not extend said franchise as it restricts the chances to gouge the rail companies for more money, which means that the rail companies have to gouge us to stand a chance of making any money. Result. How many times has the East Coast line been abandoned by Companies as the figure's don't add up, forcing HM Government to waste more money...?
 
#15
I understand the reasoning is that the Train Companies wouldn't splash out unless their Franchise is extended. HM Government will not extend said franchise as it restricts the chances to gouge the rail companies for more money, which means that the rail companies have to gouge us to stand a chance of making any money. Result. How many times has the East Coast line been abandoned by Companies as the figure's don't add up, forcing HM Government to waste more money...?
Quite... why would anyone invest millions in new rolling stock if, when the franchise is up, they might not be running trains at all any more?

Frankly it's a completely rational response from the train companies given the impossible situation they are in, with time-limited franchises to run trains that they don't own on tracks that they don't own. "Guarantee us that we can make our money back on the carriages, or you will have to buy them for us"
 
#16
'Non of the ToC's own any rolling stock - it is all leased from the two train lease companies, at extortionate prices!' - Recce19, I didn't know that! The whole rail thing is a real bugger's muddle - a number of years ago I did a System Safety course and one of the examples was the Train Warning System (TPWS) which the company that I worked for then manufactured. I listened in amazement as it was revealed that everyone reported to everyone else but no one was actually responsible for anything! With regard to the power deficiencies, I do know that, once it became public, there was a crash programme to upgrade the power systems and the extra juice was provided very quickly.
Sounds about right! The irony of the Southern fleet of Electrostar class 377 units, was they were originally ordered by Connex (remember them!?) and the designs were not thought through and thy also didn't order enough of them to cover the diagrams (services). Another **** up, was for example, the modular designed toilets. Thex were designed to be lifted in and out as a unit - hense the modular tag - problem is, the roofs are glued on! Another problem (now), is that the manufacturers have gone bust, so no spares!

The power problem wasn't just the units fault. Some power section areas are (or were) only fed from one end, so if two trains occupied the same section (power wise - not signal), there wasn't enough jiuce for both! Most sections, even then, were fed from both ends. Then you can throw in to the mix Reostatic Braking and it deffo gets complicated!
 
#17
To complicate matters further, I heard not so long ago, from someone who works for Network Rail, that some lines that had been built years ago (before nationalisation) worked on different voltages to the rest of the system!
 
#18
Non of the ToC's own any rolling stock - it is all leased from the two train lease companies, at extortionate prices! One is called Portabrooke - can't remember the other one.
Angel trains?
 
#20
Quite... why would anyone invest millions in new rolling stock if, when the franchise is up, they might not be running trains at all any more?

Frankly it's a completely rational response from the train companies given the impossible situation they are in, with time-limited franchises to run trains that they don't own on tracks that they don't own. "Guarantee us that we can make our money back on the carriages, or you will have to buy them for us"
Of course there is the case of First Great Western who as part of their bid when they went for the franchise which swallowed up Thames trans and Wessex Trains said they would spend millions upgrading their HST's when in reality they have actually got worse, they did refurb the interiors though, a bit like putting some new seat covers on a old ford cortina and saying its good for another 100,000 miles!
 

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