Government suppressed report showing massive military wast

#1
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6740695.ece

An internal Ministry of Defence report which reveals that £2.5 billion is being wasted on equipment each year has been suppressed, it was claimed tonight.

The report by Bernard Gray, a former MoD official, is said to contain devastating examples of taxpayers’ money being wasted on expensive procurement projects which are unaffordable
Calling for the Government to publish the Gray report in full, Liam Fox, the Shadow Defence Secretary, said: “This is a damning indictment of 12 years of incompetence. By trying to suppress this report, the Prime Minister has demonstrated that he cares more about the reputation of Labour than he does about the well-being of the Armed Forces.”

If this is true, any reports about Our Troops being underfunded can be taken with a pinch of salt. Or, have I missed the point?
 
#2
The article seems to suggest that basically crap managment of projects that allow overspends/overruns are costing billions of pounds in fees/charges/excesses to add on to prices. If thats the case it would not suprise me.

Troops on the ground can still be underfunded if the money is getting flushed down the drain before it even leaves the bank.
 
#3
2.5 billion waste? pah! Is that just the waste on coffee machine mis-management?

Seriously, this is the wastage of a minor department like agriculture... our MOD civil servants run a world-class operation in hopelessly irresponsible waste, it's no secret either.
 
#4
All hail DIIF!!!!!

My office has been trashed by the contractors who made a complete arse of putting up the trunking, the nobbers couldn't work out you put the truncking runs ABOVE the suspended ceilings, then were told to take it all back down and put it up abpve the ceilings… walls are a complete mess now of holes and cut outs that will need filling and repainting and umpteen hundred feet of trunking and cables got put in the gash.

And the best bit? Still waiting for the new wünder machine and printer to arrive on the new desk it's going to sit on.

Waste? What MOD waste?
 
#5
I can totally believe it. And I'll give you an example of why.
Years ago, my father, an engineer, helped install a series of compressors for a major British defence firm. Or rather, THE major British defence firm. Now, the contractor was too stupid to bother telling people to check the oil in these things before they were flashed up and run all day, every day. Result? One of these 30 grand beauties blew up on day two. So, how to resolve this - tell the staff to check the oil? Issue an instruction manual, or train someone on site to do it?
No - the company paid my dad's outfit thousands for one of their staff to drive half way across England every day to do it for them and stay on site drinking tea all day.
I'm sure you've all seen it a thousand times before too. I was horrified at how much the services wasted money when I was in, and I wasn't even in the RAF.
 
#6
codbutt said:
I can totally believe it. And I'll give you an example of why.
Years ago, my father, an engineer, helped install a series of compressors for a major British defence firm. Or rather, THE major British defence firm. Now, the contractor was too stupid to bother telling people to check the oil in these things before they were flashed up and run all day, every day. Result? One of these 30 grand beauties blew up on day two. So, how to resolve this - tell the staff to check the oil? Issue an instruction manual, or train someone on site to do it?
No - the company paid my dad's outfit thousands for one of their staff to drive half way across England every day to do it for them and stay on site drinking tea all day.
I'm sure you've all seen it a thousand times before too. I was horrified at how much the services wasted money when I was in, and I wasn't even in the RAF.[/quote]

:D
whf
 
#7
In the last years of the Cold War the amount of waste at such places as Greenham Common, Alconbury, Bentwaters , ect beggers belief the amount of concrete and asphalt used was enormous, right up until the day they closed, contractors were still laying new taxiways, roads, and in some cases the work carried on after the base was closed because the contracts had been signed years before the decision to close had made, some of these costs were paid for by the US and NATO, but most came from MOD funding and the good old British taxpayer
 
#8
Yes but if the government wasn't awarding these dodgy contracts and wasting Billions, how on Earth would former Defence Secretaries get jobs or positions on the boards of the self same companies once they leave their MOD post?

Certainly not on the back of any discernable talent.
 
#9
The_Coming_Man said:
Yes but if the government wasn't awarding these dodgy contracts and wasting Billions, how on Earth would former Defence Secretaries get jobs or positions on the boards of the self same companies once they leave their MOD post?

Certainly not on the back of any discernable talent.

Don't be cruel!

It's not Ainworthless's fault he's a useless mong.
 
#10
ferox_provincia said:
The_Coming_Man said:
Yes but if the government wasn't awarding these dodgy contracts and wasting Billions, how on Earth would former Defence Secretaries get jobs or positions on the boards of the self same companies once they leave their MOD post?

Certainly not on the back of any discernable talent.

Don't be cruel!

It's not Ainworthless's fault he's a useless mong.
Well he can always try playing the "Class" card... it's not the fact that he's a thick, IRA loving, expenses fiddling, incompetent tw*t that he's hated don't you know!

The fact that the likes of Ainsworth and Prescott and the other champagne socialists are the very antithesis of working class values such as hard work and loyalty seems to have passed him by.

If he's such a working class hero, why isn't he doin something about paying and equipping the forces properly? After all, we are predominantly working class.
 
#11
Very interesting indeed. I can see the sense of putting the reccomendations in to the SDR - it makes sense to do so as you can use the reports proposed savings to help the SDR package.

At the same time though, I find the line that its not complete yet to be an interesting interpretation of the truth. If rumour is to be believed, the completed report has been around for some time, and the MOD response was written...
 
#12
jim30 said:
Very interesting indeed. I can see the sense of putting the reccomendations in to the SDR - it makes sense to do so as you can use the reports proposed savings to help the SDR package.

At the same time though, I find the line that its not complete yet to be an interesting interpretation of the truth. If rumour is to be believed, the completed report has been around for some time, and the MOD response was written...
I recall this report was presented by Bernard Gray to the DB in Jun. I have been trying to get a copy for several weeks but to no avail. In this case it is the very senior mil and civil servants who are not releasing the report within Defence - I find that pretty poor. Either the report is factually inaccurate - in which case get your money back from Mr Gray - or else it is accurate - but contains some unpleasant truths which senior personnel don't wish to be muddying the water whilst we prepare for the Defence Review.
whf
 
#13
Wehappyfew - not having seen the report in its entirety, I couldn't comment. I wouldnt be surprised if the blame for holding it up was due to politics, and serving personnel.
 
#14
jim30 said:
Very interesting indeed. I can see the sense of putting the reccomendations in to the SDR - it makes sense to do so as you can use the reports proposed savings to help the SDR package.

At the same time though, I find the line that its not complete yet to be an interesting interpretation of the truth. If rumour is to be believed, the completed report has been around for some time, and the MOD response was written...
Bang on. I can't speak for the accuracy of the claimed figures, as I haven't seen the report. It was kept on a very close hold, and I'd be surprised if as many as 20 very senior people in DE&S had seen the thing.

As for the report being "incomplete" - bollox. It was certainly considered complete up until 14 July, which was the day before it was due to be published (together with the MoD's response). On the 14 July we got told it was being sat on. Draw your own conclusions.
 
#15
Uncivil_Servant said:
jim30 said:
Very interesting indeed. I can see the sense of putting the reccomendations in to the SDR - it makes sense to do so as you can use the reports proposed savings to help the SDR package.

At the same time though, I find the line that its not complete yet to be an interesting interpretation of the truth. If rumour is to be believed, the completed report has been around for some time, and the MOD response was written...
Bang on. I can't speak for the accuracy of the claimed figures, as I haven't seen the report. It was kept on a very close hold, and I'd be surprised if as many as 20 very senior people in DE&S had seen the thing.

As for the report being "incomplete" - bollox. It was certainly considered complete up until 14 July, which was the day before it was due to be published (together with the MoD's response). On the 14 July we got told it was being sat on. Draw your own conclusions.
That's funny. Quentin Davies claimed on Radio 4 this morning, at about 830am that the report was "in an uncompleted state" when he saw it 2 months ago.... Fancy ringing the Today Program..... :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8186000/8186808.stm at 0830
 
#16
Technically it would have been uncompleted two months ago - after all it wasn't due to have been published then! The good minister isn't lying, he's merely providing an alternative interpretation of the available data :)
 
#17
Jim beat me to it. Yet another example of why, if these bastewards told me it was Thursday, I'd buy a newspaper to check.
 
#18
jim30 said:
Technically it would have been uncompleted two months ago - after all it wasn't due to have been published then! The good minister isn't lying, he's merely providing an alternative interpretation of the available data :)
Now, somebody remind me what John Hutton decided to do two months ago......

Cynics and mischief makers might suggest that as MP for Barrow, with many a local job thus hanging off of BAE Global Combat Systems and BAE Systems Submarine Solutions and so reliant upon continued government munificence, small matters like delays on submarines, aircraft carriers, destroyers etc. etc. etc might not have played very well.
 
#19
The_Coming_Man said:
If he's such a working class hero, why isn't he doin something about paying and equipping the forces properly? After all, we are predominantly working class.

And we predominantly don't vote for socialists and marxists.

Simples!
 

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