Government loses Religious Hatred Bill

Shows how out of touch Bliar is with his own party, let alone anything else. Either that or he thought it was going to be a larger defeat and he stayed away to avoid humiliation!
He may not be kicking himself, but he is looking pretty silly :lol:
Lets hope they lose the Education Bill as well, all nails in his coffin so to speak.
It gets better....

It appears that the chief whip (the less than delightful Hilary Armstrong) sent about 20 Labour MPs to Scotland so that they could campaign in the Dunfirmline & West by-election. They were not recalled, since Ms Armstrong thought that the party had a large enough majority.

Then, after the first vote on ammedments (I think) was lost by 10, Armstrong told Blair that there was no point in him staying. So he went home. If he'd stayed, then the tied result would have led to the Speaker having the casting vote. This, by convention, always goes with the government.

Although it might hasten Blair's departure, the money is on Armstrong losing her job first, since Blair is due to hold a reshuffle in the next few days...

By the by, the government enjoyed the support of the member for the Big Brother House in one of his rare appearances in the chamber.


The most vociferous opponent was Rowan Atkinson-looks like MPs take more notice of RA than TB
Almost restores your faith in Parliamentary Democracy doesn't it? Nice to see Galloway joining forces with his old pals in New labour for another lost vote in a house!
On second thoughts, from the great Rowan Atkinson:

You cannot draft a piece of legislation with the intention of just picking off a few nasty people, because the very nature of law is that it applies to us all and there is absolutely no doubt this bill is seeking to provide immunity from criticism and ridicule to religious beliefs.

I am a great believer that you should be allowed to say whatever you like about religious beliefs and practices and if the religious believers are caught in the crossfire they just have to accept that if the exposure of hateful or ridiculous religious practices is done then the religion's followers are just going to have to accept responsibility for those things.

The government says the aim of the legislation is only to protect believers not beliefs - but I do not understand how you can attack one or criticise or ridicule one without implicating the other.

All that clause is doing is saying is 'you have not committed an offence, unless of course you have committed the offence, in which case I am afraid you have committed an offence'

There is a so-called 'free speech clause', which the government is trumpeting like mad as a big new idea - but to me, having read it, it is virtually meaningless.

There was a very good free speech clause in there, which came from the Lords - but now, sadly, it has been neutered with a conditional clause in the middle of it, which starts with the word 'unless'.

So you are not guilty of the offence, you can criticise, ridicule and abuse or insult religion or religious belief or religious practice, unless you intend thereby to stir up religious hatred or were reckless as to whether religious hatred would be stirred up.

So effectively all that clause is doing is saying is 'you have not committed an offence, unless of course you have committed the offence, in which case I am afraid you have committed an offence'.

It is a circular bit of nonsense.

When I first started reading it, I thought 'oh great, we have won, we have achieved something' - but by the time you get to the bottom of the page, it has all been removed in conditional clauses.
Some Labourists voted against proposal of own party. Is it possible that Lib.dems, Tories (with great pleasure), GG and some Labourists vote for withdrawal of highly esteemed Rt.Hon., learned mr.Blair form N10?

Suppose that it happen. When what do you think would be a position of mr.Brown toward Iraqi war?
KGB_resident said:
Some Labourists voted against proposal of own party. Is it possible that Lib.dems, Tories (with great pleasure), GG and some Labourists vote for withdrawal of highly esteemed Rt.Hon., learned mr.Blair form N10?

Suppose that it happen. When what do you think would be a position of mr.Brown toward Iraqi war?
They're at war? Right, we can tax them for that can't we?
The vote breakdown:

1st division:

2nd division:

These are the scum that voted with the government for the first division:

Nick Ainger Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire Lab (minister) aye
Bob Ainsworth Coventry North East Lab (minister) aye
Douglas Alexander Paisley & Renfrewshire South Lab (minister) aye
David Anderson Blaydon Lab aye
Janet Anderson Rossendale & Darwen Lab aye
Hilary Armstrong North West Durham Lab (minister) aye
Charlotte Atkins Staffordshire Moorlands Lab aye
Ian Austin Dudley North Lab aye
John Austin Erith & Thamesmead Lab aye
Adrian Bailey West Bromwich West Lab (PPS) aye
Vera Baird Redcar Lab (PPS) aye
Edward Balls Normanton Lab aye
Celia Barlow Hove Lab aye
Kevin Barron Rother Valley Lab aye
John Battle Leeds West Lab aye
Hugh Bayley York, City of Lab aye
Margaret Beckett Derby South Lab (minister) aye
Stuart Bell Middlesbrough Lab (minister) aye
Hilary Benn Leeds Central Lab (minister) aye
Liz Blackman Erewash Lab (PPS) aye
Roberta Blackman-Woods Durham, City of Lab aye
Tony Blair Sedgefield Lab (minister) aye
Hazel Blears Salford Lab (minister) aye
Bob Blizzard Waveney Lab (PPS) aye
David Blunkett Sheffield, Brightside Lab aye
David Borrow South Ribble Lab aye
Ben Bradshaw Exeter Lab (minister) aye
Kevin Brennan Cardiff West Lab (minister) aye
Gordon Brown Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath Lab (minister) aye
Lyn Brown West Ham Lab aye
Nick Brown Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wallsend Lab aye
Des Browne Kilmarnock & Loudoun Lab (minister) aye
Chris Bryant Rhondda Lab (PPS) aye
Karen Buck Regent's Park & Kensington North Lab (minister) aye
Richard Burden Birmingham, Northfield Lab aye
Colin Burgon Elmet Lab aye
Andy Burnham Leigh Lab (minister) aye
Dawn Butler Brent South Lab (PPS) aye
Stephen Byers North Tyneside Lab aye
Liam Byrne Birmingham, Hodge Hill Lab (minister) aye
David Cairns Inverclyde Lab (minister) aye
Alan Campbell Tynemouth Lab (minister) aye
Martin Caton Gower Lab aye
Ian Cawsey Brigg & Goole Lab (minister) aye
Ben Chapman Wirral South Lab aye
David Chaytor Bury North Lab aye
Michael Clapham Barnsley West & Penistone Lab aye
Paul Clark Gillingham Lab (PPS) aye
Charles Clarke Norwich South Lab (minister) aye
Tom Clarke Coatbridge, Chryston & Bellshill Lab aye
David Clelland Tyne Bridge Lab aye
Ann Clwyd Cynon Valley Lab aye
Vernon Coaker Gedling Lab (minister) aye
Ann Coffey Stockport Lab (PPS) aye
Harry Cohen Leyton & Wanstead Lab aye
Rosie Cooper West Lancashire Lab aye
Yvette Cooper Pontefract & Castleford Lab (minister) aye
Jim Cousins Newcastle upon Tyne Central Lab aye
David Crausby Bolton North East Lab aye
Mary Creagh Wakefield Lab aye
Jon Cruddas Dagenham Lab aye
John Cummings Easington Lab aye
Jim Cunningham Coventry South Lab (PPS) aye
Tony Cunningham Workington Lab (minister) aye
Claire Curtis-Thomas Crosby Lab aye
Alistair Darling Edinburgh South West Lab (minister) aye
Wayne David Caerphilly Lab (PPS) aye
Janet Dean Burton Lab aye
John Denham Southampton, Itchen Lab aye
Jim Devine Livingston Lab aye
Parmjit Dhanda Gloucester Lab (minister) aye
Andrew Dismore Hendon Lab aye
Frank Dobson Holborn & St Pancras Lab aye
Brian H Donohoe Ayrshire Central Lab aye
Frank Doran Aberdeen North Lab aye
Jim Dowd Lewisham West Lab aye
Angela Eagle Wallasey Lab aye
Maria Eagle Liverpool, Garston Lab (minister) aye
Clive Efford Eltham Lab aye
Louise Ellman Liverpool, Riverside Lab aye
Natascha Engel North East Derbyshire Lab aye
Jeff Ennis Barnsley East & Mexborough Lab aye
Paul Farrelly Newcastle-under-Lyme Lab aye
Jim Fitzpatrick Poplar & Canning Town Lab (minister) aye
Robert Flello Stoke-on-Trent South Lab aye
Caroline Flint Don Valley Lab (minister) aye
Barbara Follett Stevenage Lab (PPS) aye
Michael Foster Worcester Lab (PPS) aye
Mike Gapes Ilford South Lab aye
Bruce George Walsall South Lab aye
Neil Gerrard Walthamstow Lab aye
Linda Gilroy Plymouth, Sutton Lab aye
Roger Godsiff Birmingham, Sparkbrook & Small Heath Lab aye
Paul Goggins Wythenshawe & Sale East Lab (minister) aye
Helen Goodman Bishop Auckland Lab aye
Nia Griffith Llanelli Lab aye
Nigel Griffiths Edinburgh South Lab (minister) aye
Andrew Gwynne Denton & Reddish Lab (PPS) aye
Peter Hain Neath Lab (minister) aye
Mike Hall Weaver Vale Lab aye
Fabian Hamilton Leeds North East Lab aye
Harriet Harman Camberwell & Peckham Lab (minister) aye
Dai Havard Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney Lab aye
John Healey Wentworth Lab (minister) aye
Doug Henderson Newcastle upon Tyne North Lab aye
Mark Hendrick Preston Lab (PPS) aye
Stephen Hepburn Jarrow Lab aye
John Heppell Nottingham East Lab (minister) aye
Stephen Hesford Wirral West Lab (PPS) aye
Patricia Hewitt Leicester West Lab (minister) aye
David Heyes Ashton-under-Lyne Lab aye
Keith Hill Streatham Lab (PPS) aye
Meg Hillier Hackney South & Shoreditch Lab aye
Margaret Hodge Barking Lab (minister) aye
Sharon Hodgson Gateshead East & Washington West Lab aye
Geoff Hoon Ashfield Lab (minister) aye
Phil Hope Corby Lab (minister) aye
George Howarth Knowsley North & Sefton East Lab aye
Kim Howells Pontypridd Lab (minister) aye
Lindsay Hoyle Chorley Lab aye
Beverley Hughes Stretford & Urmston Lab (minister) aye
Joan Humble Blackpool North & Fleetwood Lab aye
John Hutton Barrow & Furness Lab (minister) aye
Brian Iddon Bolton South East Lab aye
Eric Illsley Barnsley Central Lab aye
Huw Irranca-Davies Ogmore Lab (PPS) aye
Glenda Jackson Hampstead & Highgate Lab aye
Sian James Swansea East Lab aye
Brian Jenkins Tamworth Lab aye
Alan Johnson Kingston upon Hull West & Hessle Lab (minister) aye
Diana Johnson Kingston upon Hull North Lab (PPS) aye
Helen Jones Warrington North Lab aye
Kevan Jones North Durham Lab aye
Martyn Jones Clwyd South Lab aye
Tessa Jowell Dulwich & West Norwood Lab (minister) aye
Sally Keeble Northampton North Lab aye
Barbara Keeley Worsley Lab aye
Alan Keen Feltham & Heston Lab aye
Ann Keen Brentford & Isleworth Lab (PPS) aye
Ruth Kelly Bolton West Lab (minister) aye
Fraser Kemp Houghton & Washington East Lab aye
Jane Kennedy Liverpool, Wavertree Lab (minister) aye
Piara S Khabra Ealing, Southall Lab aye
Sadiq Khan Tooting Lab aye
David Kidney Stafford Lab (PPS) aye
Jim Knight South Dorset Lab (minister) aye
Ashok Kumar Middlesbrough South & East Cleveland Lab (PPS) aye
Stephen Ladyman South Thanet Lab (minister) aye
David Lammy Tottenham Lab (minister) aye
Bob Laxton Derby North Lab aye
Tom Levitt High Peak Lab (PPS) aye
Ivan Lewis Bury South Lab (minister) aye
Martin Linton Battersea Lab (PPS) aye
Tony Lloyd Manchester Central Lab aye
Andrew Love Edmonton Lab aye
Ian Lucas Wrexham Lab (PPS) aye
Denis MacShane Rotherham Lab aye
Fiona Mactaggart Slough Lab (minister) aye
Khalid Mahmood Birmingham, Perry Barr Lab (PPS) aye
Shahid Malik Dewsbury Lab aye
Judy Mallaber Amber Valley Lab aye
John Mann Bassetlaw Lab (PPS) aye
Rob Marris Wolverhampton South West Lab aye
Gordon Marsden Blackpool South Lab aye
David Marshall Glasgow East Lab aye
Eric Martlew Carlisle Lab aye
Thomas McAvoy Rutherglen & Hamilton West Lab (minister) aye
Chris McCafferty Calder Valley Lab aye
Kerry McCarthy Bristol East Lab aye
Sarah McCarthy-Fry Portsmouth North Lab aye
Ian McCartney Makerfield Lab (minister) aye
Siobhain McDonagh Mitcham & Morden Lab (PPS) aye
Patrick McFadden Wolverhampton South East Lab aye
John McFall West Dunbartonshire Lab aye
James McGovern Dundee West Lab aye
Anne McGuire Stirling Lab (minister) aye
Shona McIsaac Cleethorpes Lab (PPS) aye
Ann McKechin Glasgow North Lab aye
Tony McNulty Harrow East Lab (minister) aye
Gillian Merron Lincoln Lab (minister) aye
Alun Michael Cardiff South & Penarth Lab (minister) aye
Alan Milburn Darlington Lab aye
David Miliband South Shields Lab (minister) aye
Edward Miliband Doncaster North Lab aye
Andrew Miller Ellesmere Port & Neston Lab aye
Anne Moffat East Lothian Lab aye
Laura Moffatt Crawley Lab aye
Chris Mole Ipswich Lab (PPS) aye
Margaret Moran Luton South Lab aye
Jessica Morden Newport East Lab aye
Julie Morgan Cardiff North Lab aye
Elliot Morley Scunthorpe Lab (minister) aye
Kali Mountford Colne Valley Lab (PPS) aye
George Mudie Leeds East Lab aye
Chris Mullin Sunderland South Lab aye
Meg Munn Sheffield, Heeley Lab (minister) aye
Jim Murphy Renfrewshire East Lab (minister) aye
Paul Murphy Torfaen Lab aye
Doug Naysmith Bristol North West Lab aye
Dan Norris Wansdyke Lab aye
Mike O'Brien North Warwickshire Lab (minister) aye
Bill Olner Nuneaton Lab aye
Sandra Osborne Ayr, Carrick & Cumnock Lab aye
Albert Owen Ynys Môn Lab aye
Nick Palmer Broxtowe Lab (PPS) aye
James Plaskitt Warwick & Leamington Lab (minister) aye
Greg Pope Hyndburn Lab aye
Bridget Prentice Lewisham East Lab (minister) aye
John Prescott Kingston upon Hull East Lab (minister) aye
Dawn Primarolo Bristol South Lab (minister) aye
Gwyn Prosser Dover Lab aye
Ken Purchase Wolverhampton North East Lab aye
James Purnell Stalybridge & Hyde Lab (minister) aye
Bill Rammell Harlow Lab (minister) aye
Nick Raynsford Greenwich & Woolwich Lab aye
Andy Reed Loughborough Lab (PPS) aye
Jamie Reed Copeland Lab aye
John Reid Airdrie & Shotts Lab (minister) aye
Geoffrey Robinson Coventry North West Lab aye
Terry Rooney Bradford North Lab aye
Chris Ruane Vale of Clwyd Lab (PPS) aye
Joan Ruddock Lewisham, Deptford Lab aye
Christine Russell Chester, City of Lab (PPS) aye
Joan Ryan Enfield North Lab (minister) aye
Martin Salter Reading West Lab aye
Mohammad Sarwar Glasgow Central Lab aye
Alison Seabeck Plymouth, Devonport Lab aye
Jonathan R Shaw Chatham & Aylesford Lab (PPS) aye
Barry Sheerman Huddersfield Lab aye
Jim Sheridan Paisley & Renfrewshire North Lab (PPS) aye
Clare Short Birmingham, Ladywood Lab aye
Siôn Simon Birmingham, Erdington Lab (PPS) aye
Marsha Singh Bradford West Lab aye
Andrew Slaughter Ealing, Acton & Shepherd's Bush Lab (PPS) aye
Andrew Smith Oxford East Lab aye
Angela Smith Sheffield, Hillsborough Lab (PPS) aye
Jacqui Smith Redditch Lab (minister) aye
John Smith Vale of Glamorgan Lab aye
Peter Soulsby Leicester South Lab aye
Helen Southworth Warrington South Lab aye
John Spellar Warley Lab aye
Phyllis Starkey Milton Keynes South West Lab aye
Howard Stoate Dartford Lab aye
Gavin Strang Edinburgh East Lab aye
Jack Straw Blackburn Lab (minister) aye
Gisela Stuart Birmingham, Edgbaston Lab aye
Gerry Sutcliffe Bradford South Lab (minister) aye
Mark Tami Alyn & Deeside Lab (PPS) aye
Dari Taylor Stockton South Lab aye
Gareth Thomas Harrow West Lab (minister) aye
Emily Thornberry Islington South & Finsbury Lab aye
Stephen Timms East Ham Lab (minister) aye
Paddy Tipping Sherwood Lab (PPS) aye
Mark Todd South Derbyshire Lab aye
Don Touhig Islwyn Lab (minister) aye
Jon Trickett Hemsworth Lab aye
Desmond Turner Brighton, Kemptown Lab aye
Neil Turner Wigan Lab (PPS) aye
Derek Twigg Halton Lab (minister) aye
Kitty Ussher Burnley Lab aye
Keith Vaz Leicester East Lab aye
Joan Walley Stoke-on-Trent North Lab aye
Lynda Waltho Stourbridge Lab (PPS) aye
Claire Ward Watford Lab (minister) tellaye
Tom Watson West Bromwich East Lab (minister) aye
Dave Watts St Helens North Lab (minister) tellaye
Alan Whitehead Southampton, Test Lab aye
Malcolm Wicks Croydon North Lab (minister) aye
Alan Williams Swansea West Lab aye
Betty Williams Conwy Lab aye
Michael Wills North Swindon Lab aye
David Winnick Walsall North Lab aye
Rosie Winterton Doncaster Central Lab (minister) aye
Mike Wood Batley & Spen Lab aye
Phil Woolas Oldham East & Saddleworth Lab (minister) aye
Anthony D Wright Great Yarmouth Lab aye
David Wright Telford Lab (PPS) aye
Iain Wright Hartlepool Lab (PPS) aye
Derek Wyatt Sittingbourne & Sheppey Lab aye
George Galloway Bethnal Green & Bow Res aye

Note that apart from Labour, only George Galloway voted with the government.
stoatman said:
Note that apart from Labour, only George Galloway voted with the government.
It was a logical decision taken into account population of his constituency. As to mr.Blair he could invite mr.Galloway to return to Labour party. There is a miniroty (however a big one) that support GG. Mr.Blair as a sly politician could use it.
The fact that George Galloway voted for it, as you say sergey due to the makeup of his constituency, rather goes to prove that the whole thing was just a sop to the Muslims to render them and many of their barbaric practices beyond criticism.
Nice list Stoatman, I hope members of arrse take note of the names and react accordingly when it comes to using a ballot box. Maybe a few letters to these dictatorial individuals will make them think about the electoral consequences of their actions.
stoatman said:
The fact that George Galloway voted for it, as you say sergey due to the makeup of his constituency, rather goes to prove that the whole thing was just a sop to the Muslims to render them and many of their barbaric practices beyond criticism.
Of course you are right and I support you. There is too much attention to interests of religious minorities. They have a good option: to leave the UK. Too many of them in Great Britain.
My opinion is that if they find our culture and practices (freedom of speech, love of parody, Liberal attitudes towards homosexuality and women etc) distasteful or indeed offensive, they didn't have to move here in the first place. Shame the current regime doesn't share this view, and thinks that the 91% should change due to the intolerance of the 9%.
Here! Here! You wouldn't have any Danish Cartoons on your person would you Stoatman?

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