Government loses Religious Hatred Bill

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Archimedes, Jan 31, 2006.

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  1. Splendid, wonder if our friend Bliar is kicking himself?????
     
  2. Shows how out of touch Bliar is with his own party, let alone anything else. Either that or he thought it was going to be a larger defeat and he stayed away to avoid humiliation!
     
  3. He may not be kicking himself, but he is looking pretty silly :lol:
     
  4. With only one vote between them he will push it through.
     
  5. Lets hope they lose the Education Bill as well, all nails in his coffin so to speak.
     
  6. It gets better....

    It appears that the chief whip (the less than delightful Hilary Armstrong) sent about 20 Labour MPs to Scotland so that they could campaign in the Dunfirmline & West by-election. They were not recalled, since Ms Armstrong thought that the party had a large enough majority.

    Then, after the first vote on ammedments (I think) was lost by 10, Armstrong told Blair that there was no point in him staying. So he went home. If he'd stayed, then the tied result would have led to the Speaker having the casting vote. This, by convention, always goes with the government.

    Although it might hasten Blair's departure, the money is on Armstrong losing her job first, since Blair is due to hold a reshuffle in the next few days...

    By the by, the government enjoyed the support of the member for the Big Brother House in one of his rare appearances in the chamber.
     
  7. Archimedes, thanks for the giggle - you've made my morning! :D
     
  8. The most vociferous opponent was Rowan Atkinson-looks like MPs take more notice of RA than TB
     
  9. Almost restores your faith in Parliamentary Democracy doesn't it? Nice to see Galloway joining forces with his old pals in New labour for another lost vote in a house!
     
  10. On second thoughts, from the great Rowan Atkinson:

    You cannot draft a piece of legislation with the intention of just picking off a few nasty people, because the very nature of law is that it applies to us all and there is absolutely no doubt this bill is seeking to provide immunity from criticism and ridicule to religious beliefs.

    I am a great believer that you should be allowed to say whatever you like about religious beliefs and practices and if the religious believers are caught in the crossfire they just have to accept that if the exposure of hateful or ridiculous religious practices is done then the religion's followers are just going to have to accept responsibility for those things.

    The government says the aim of the legislation is only to protect believers not beliefs - but I do not understand how you can attack one or criticise or ridicule one without implicating the other.

    All that clause is doing is saying is 'you have not committed an offence, unless of course you have committed the offence, in which case I am afraid you have committed an offence'

    There is a so-called 'free speech clause', which the government is trumpeting like mad as a big new idea - but to me, having read it, it is virtually meaningless.

    There was a very good free speech clause in there, which came from the Lords - but now, sadly, it has been neutered with a conditional clause in the middle of it, which starts with the word 'unless'.

    So you are not guilty of the offence, you can criticise, ridicule and abuse or insult religion or religious belief or religious practice, unless you intend thereby to stir up religious hatred or were reckless as to whether religious hatred would be stirred up.

    So effectively all that clause is doing is saying is 'you have not committed an offence, unless of course you have committed the offence, in which case I am afraid you have committed an offence'.

    It is a circular bit of nonsense.

    When I first started reading it, I thought 'oh great, we have won, we have achieved something' - but by the time you get to the bottom of the page, it has all been removed in conditional clauses.
     
  11. Some Labourists voted against proposal of own party. Is it possible that Lib.dems, Tories (with great pleasure), GG and some Labourists vote for withdrawal of highly esteemed Rt.Hon., learned mr.Blair form N10?

    Suppose that it happen. When what do you think would be a position of mr.Brown toward Iraqi war?
     
  12. They're at war? Right, we can tax them for that can't we?
     
  13. The vote breakdown:

    1st division: http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2006-01-31&number=147

    2nd division: http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2006-01-31&number=148

    These are the scum that voted with the government for the first division:

    Nick Ainger Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire Lab (minister) aye
    Bob Ainsworth Coventry North East Lab (minister) aye
    Douglas Alexander Paisley & Renfrewshire South Lab (minister) aye
    David Anderson Blaydon Lab aye
    Janet Anderson Rossendale & Darwen Lab aye
    Hilary Armstrong North West Durham Lab (minister) aye
    Charlotte Atkins Staffordshire Moorlands Lab aye
    Ian Austin Dudley North Lab aye
    John Austin Erith & Thamesmead Lab aye
    Adrian Bailey West Bromwich West Lab (PPS) aye
    Vera Baird Redcar Lab (PPS) aye
    Edward Balls Normanton Lab aye
    Celia Barlow Hove Lab aye
    Kevin Barron Rother Valley Lab aye
    John Battle Leeds West Lab aye
    Hugh Bayley York, City of Lab aye
    Margaret Beckett Derby South Lab (minister) aye
    Stuart Bell Middlesbrough Lab (minister) aye
    Hilary Benn Leeds Central Lab (minister) aye
    Liz Blackman Erewash Lab (PPS) aye
    Roberta Blackman-Woods Durham, City of Lab aye
    Tony Blair Sedgefield Lab (minister) aye
    Hazel Blears Salford Lab (minister) aye
    Bob Blizzard Waveney Lab (PPS) aye
    David Blunkett Sheffield, Brightside Lab aye
    David Borrow South Ribble Lab aye
    Ben Bradshaw Exeter Lab (minister) aye
    Kevin Brennan Cardiff West Lab (minister) aye
    Gordon Brown Kirkcaldy & Cowdenbeath Lab (minister) aye
    Lyn Brown West Ham Lab aye
    Nick Brown Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wallsend Lab aye
    Des Browne Kilmarnock & Loudoun Lab (minister) aye
    Chris Bryant Rhondda Lab (PPS) aye
    Karen Buck Regent's Park & Kensington North Lab (minister) aye
    Richard Burden Birmingham, Northfield Lab aye
    Colin Burgon Elmet Lab aye
    Andy Burnham Leigh Lab (minister) aye
    Dawn Butler Brent South Lab (PPS) aye
    Stephen Byers North Tyneside Lab aye
    Liam Byrne Birmingham, Hodge Hill Lab (minister) aye
    David Cairns Inverclyde Lab (minister) aye
    Alan Campbell Tynemouth Lab (minister) aye
    Martin Caton Gower Lab aye
    Ian Cawsey Brigg & Goole Lab (minister) aye
    Ben Chapman Wirral South Lab aye
    David Chaytor Bury North Lab aye
    Michael Clapham Barnsley West & Penistone Lab aye
    Paul Clark Gillingham Lab (PPS) aye
    Charles Clarke Norwich South Lab (minister) aye
    Tom Clarke Coatbridge, Chryston & Bellshill Lab aye
    David Clelland Tyne Bridge Lab aye
    Ann Clwyd Cynon Valley Lab aye
    Vernon Coaker Gedling Lab (minister) aye
    Ann Coffey Stockport Lab (PPS) aye
    Harry Cohen Leyton & Wanstead Lab aye
    Rosie Cooper West Lancashire Lab aye
    Yvette Cooper Pontefract & Castleford Lab (minister) aye
    Jim Cousins Newcastle upon Tyne Central Lab aye
    David Crausby Bolton North East Lab aye
    Mary Creagh Wakefield Lab aye
    Jon Cruddas Dagenham Lab aye
    John Cummings Easington Lab aye
    Jim Cunningham Coventry South Lab (PPS) aye
    Tony Cunningham Workington Lab (minister) aye
    Claire Curtis-Thomas Crosby Lab aye
    Alistair Darling Edinburgh South West Lab (minister) aye
    Wayne David Caerphilly Lab (PPS) aye
    Janet Dean Burton Lab aye
    John Denham Southampton, Itchen Lab aye
    Jim Devine Livingston Lab aye
    Parmjit Dhanda Gloucester Lab (minister) aye
    Andrew Dismore Hendon Lab aye
    Frank Dobson Holborn & St Pancras Lab aye
    Brian H Donohoe Ayrshire Central Lab aye
    Frank Doran Aberdeen North Lab aye
    Jim Dowd Lewisham West Lab aye
    Angela Eagle Wallasey Lab aye
    Maria Eagle Liverpool, Garston Lab (minister) aye
    Clive Efford Eltham Lab aye
    Louise Ellman Liverpool, Riverside Lab aye
    Natascha Engel North East Derbyshire Lab aye
    Jeff Ennis Barnsley East & Mexborough Lab aye
    Paul Farrelly Newcastle-under-Lyme Lab aye
    Jim Fitzpatrick Poplar & Canning Town Lab (minister) aye
    Robert Flello Stoke-on-Trent South Lab aye
    Caroline Flint Don Valley Lab (minister) aye
    Barbara Follett Stevenage Lab (PPS) aye
    Michael Foster Worcester Lab (PPS) aye
    Mike Gapes Ilford South Lab aye
    Bruce George Walsall South Lab aye
    Neil Gerrard Walthamstow Lab aye
    Linda Gilroy Plymouth, Sutton Lab aye
    Roger Godsiff Birmingham, Sparkbrook & Small Heath Lab aye
    Paul Goggins Wythenshawe & Sale East Lab (minister) aye
    Helen Goodman Bishop Auckland Lab aye
    Nia Griffith Llanelli Lab aye
    Nigel Griffiths Edinburgh South Lab (minister) aye
    Andrew Gwynne Denton & Reddish Lab (PPS) aye
    Peter Hain Neath Lab (minister) aye
    Mike Hall Weaver Vale Lab aye
    Fabian Hamilton Leeds North East Lab aye
    Harriet Harman Camberwell & Peckham Lab (minister) aye
    Dai Havard Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney Lab aye
    John Healey Wentworth Lab (minister) aye
    Doug Henderson Newcastle upon Tyne North Lab aye
    Mark Hendrick Preston Lab (PPS) aye
    Stephen Hepburn Jarrow Lab aye
    John Heppell Nottingham East Lab (minister) aye
    Stephen Hesford Wirral West Lab (PPS) aye
    Patricia Hewitt Leicester West Lab (minister) aye
    David Heyes Ashton-under-Lyne Lab aye
    Keith Hill Streatham Lab (PPS) aye
    Meg Hillier Hackney South & Shoreditch Lab aye
    Margaret Hodge Barking Lab (minister) aye
    Sharon Hodgson Gateshead East & Washington West Lab aye
    Geoff Hoon Ashfield Lab (minister) aye
    Phil Hope Corby Lab (minister) aye
    George Howarth Knowsley North & Sefton East Lab aye
    Kim Howells Pontypridd Lab (minister) aye
    Lindsay Hoyle Chorley Lab aye
    Beverley Hughes Stretford & Urmston Lab (minister) aye
    Joan Humble Blackpool North & Fleetwood Lab aye
    John Hutton Barrow & Furness Lab (minister) aye
    Brian Iddon Bolton South East Lab aye
    Eric Illsley Barnsley Central Lab aye
    Huw Irranca-Davies Ogmore Lab (PPS) aye
    Glenda Jackson Hampstead & Highgate Lab aye
    Sian James Swansea East Lab aye
    Brian Jenkins Tamworth Lab aye
    Alan Johnson Kingston upon Hull West & Hessle Lab (minister) aye
    Diana Johnson Kingston upon Hull North Lab (PPS) aye
    Helen Jones Warrington North Lab aye
    Kevan Jones North Durham Lab aye
    Martyn Jones Clwyd South Lab aye
    Tessa Jowell Dulwich & West Norwood Lab (minister) aye
    Sally Keeble Northampton North Lab aye
    Barbara Keeley Worsley Lab aye
    Alan Keen Feltham & Heston Lab aye
    Ann Keen Brentford & Isleworth Lab (PPS) aye
    Ruth Kelly Bolton West Lab (minister) aye
    Fraser Kemp Houghton & Washington East Lab aye
    Jane Kennedy Liverpool, Wavertree Lab (minister) aye
    Piara S Khabra Ealing, Southall Lab aye
    Sadiq Khan Tooting Lab aye
    David Kidney Stafford Lab (PPS) aye
    Jim Knight South Dorset Lab (minister) aye
    Ashok Kumar Middlesbrough South & East Cleveland Lab (PPS) aye
    Stephen Ladyman South Thanet Lab (minister) aye
    David Lammy Tottenham Lab (minister) aye
    Bob Laxton Derby North Lab aye
    Tom Levitt High Peak Lab (PPS) aye
    Ivan Lewis Bury South Lab (minister) aye
    Martin Linton Battersea Lab (PPS) aye
    Tony Lloyd Manchester Central Lab aye
    Andrew Love Edmonton Lab aye
    Ian Lucas Wrexham Lab (PPS) aye
    Denis MacShane Rotherham Lab aye
    Fiona Mactaggart Slough Lab (minister) aye
    Khalid Mahmood Birmingham, Perry Barr Lab (PPS) aye
    Shahid Malik Dewsbury Lab aye
    Judy Mallaber Amber Valley Lab aye
    John Mann Bassetlaw Lab (PPS) aye
    Rob Marris Wolverhampton South West Lab aye
    Gordon Marsden Blackpool South Lab aye
    David Marshall Glasgow East Lab aye
    Eric Martlew Carlisle Lab aye
    Thomas McAvoy Rutherglen & Hamilton West Lab (minister) aye
    Chris McCafferty Calder Valley Lab aye
    Kerry McCarthy Bristol East Lab aye
    Sarah McCarthy-Fry Portsmouth North Lab aye
    Ian McCartney Makerfield Lab (minister) aye
    Siobhain McDonagh Mitcham & Morden Lab (PPS) aye
    Patrick McFadden Wolverhampton South East Lab aye
    John McFall West Dunbartonshire Lab aye
    James McGovern Dundee West Lab aye
    Anne McGuire Stirling Lab (minister) aye
    Shona McIsaac Cleethorpes Lab (PPS) aye
    Ann McKechin Glasgow North Lab aye
    Tony McNulty Harrow East Lab (minister) aye
    Gillian Merron Lincoln Lab (minister) aye
    Alun Michael Cardiff South & Penarth Lab (minister) aye
    Alan Milburn Darlington Lab aye
    David Miliband South Shields Lab (minister) aye
    Edward Miliband Doncaster North Lab aye
    Andrew Miller Ellesmere Port & Neston Lab aye
    Anne Moffat East Lothian Lab aye
    Laura Moffatt Crawley Lab aye
    Chris Mole Ipswich Lab (PPS) aye
    Margaret Moran Luton South Lab aye
    Jessica Morden Newport East Lab aye
    Julie Morgan Cardiff North Lab aye
    Elliot Morley Scunthorpe Lab (minister) aye
    Kali Mountford Colne Valley Lab (PPS) aye
    George Mudie Leeds East Lab aye
    Chris Mullin Sunderland South Lab aye
    Meg Munn Sheffield, Heeley Lab (minister) aye
    Jim Murphy Renfrewshire East Lab (minister) aye
    Paul Murphy Torfaen Lab aye
    Doug Naysmith Bristol North West Lab aye
    Dan Norris Wansdyke Lab aye
    Mike O'Brien North Warwickshire Lab (minister) aye
    Bill Olner Nuneaton Lab aye
    Sandra Osborne Ayr, Carrick & Cumnock Lab aye
    Albert Owen Ynys Môn Lab aye
    Nick Palmer Broxtowe Lab (PPS) aye
    James Plaskitt Warwick & Leamington Lab (minister) aye
    Greg Pope Hyndburn Lab aye
    Bridget Prentice Lewisham East Lab (minister) aye
    John Prescott Kingston upon Hull East Lab (minister) aye
    Dawn Primarolo Bristol South Lab (minister) aye
    Gwyn Prosser Dover Lab aye
    Ken Purchase Wolverhampton North East Lab aye
    James Purnell Stalybridge & Hyde Lab (minister) aye
    Bill Rammell Harlow Lab (minister) aye
    Nick Raynsford Greenwich & Woolwich Lab aye
    Andy Reed Loughborough Lab (PPS) aye
    Jamie Reed Copeland Lab aye
    John Reid Airdrie & Shotts Lab (minister) aye
    Geoffrey Robinson Coventry North West Lab aye
    Terry Rooney Bradford North Lab aye
    Chris Ruane Vale of Clwyd Lab (PPS) aye
    Joan Ruddock Lewisham, Deptford Lab aye
    Christine Russell Chester, City of Lab (PPS) aye
    Joan Ryan Enfield North Lab (minister) aye
    Martin Salter Reading West Lab aye
    Mohammad Sarwar Glasgow Central Lab aye
    Alison Seabeck Plymouth, Devonport Lab aye
    Jonathan R Shaw Chatham & Aylesford Lab (PPS) aye
    Barry Sheerman Huddersfield Lab aye
    Jim Sheridan Paisley & Renfrewshire North Lab (PPS) aye
    Clare Short Birmingham, Ladywood Lab aye
    Siôn Simon Birmingham, Erdington Lab (PPS) aye
    Marsha Singh Bradford West Lab aye
    Andrew Slaughter Ealing, Acton & Shepherd's Bush Lab (PPS) aye
    Andrew Smith Oxford East Lab aye
    Angela Smith Sheffield, Hillsborough Lab (PPS) aye
    Jacqui Smith Redditch Lab (minister) aye
    John Smith Vale of Glamorgan Lab aye
    Peter Soulsby Leicester South Lab aye
    Helen Southworth Warrington South Lab aye
    John Spellar Warley Lab aye
    Phyllis Starkey Milton Keynes South West Lab aye
    Howard Stoate Dartford Lab aye
    Gavin Strang Edinburgh East Lab aye
    Jack Straw Blackburn Lab (minister) aye
    Gisela Stuart Birmingham, Edgbaston Lab aye
    Gerry Sutcliffe Bradford South Lab (minister) aye
    Mark Tami Alyn & Deeside Lab (PPS) aye
    Dari Taylor Stockton South Lab aye
    Gareth Thomas Harrow West Lab (minister) aye
    Emily Thornberry Islington South & Finsbury Lab aye
    Stephen Timms East Ham Lab (minister) aye
    Paddy Tipping Sherwood Lab (PPS) aye
    Mark Todd South Derbyshire Lab aye
    Don Touhig Islwyn Lab (minister) aye
    Jon Trickett Hemsworth Lab aye
    Desmond Turner Brighton, Kemptown Lab aye
    Neil Turner Wigan Lab (PPS) aye
    Derek Twigg Halton Lab (minister) aye
    Kitty Ussher Burnley Lab aye
    Keith Vaz Leicester East Lab aye
    Joan Walley Stoke-on-Trent North Lab aye
    Lynda Waltho Stourbridge Lab (PPS) aye
    Claire Ward Watford Lab (minister) tellaye
    Tom Watson West Bromwich East Lab (minister) aye
    Dave Watts St Helens North Lab (minister) tellaye
    Alan Whitehead Southampton, Test Lab aye
    Malcolm Wicks Croydon North Lab (minister) aye
    Alan Williams Swansea West Lab aye
    Betty Williams Conwy Lab aye
    Michael Wills North Swindon Lab aye
    David Winnick Walsall North Lab aye
    Rosie Winterton Doncaster Central Lab (minister) aye
    Mike Wood Batley & Spen Lab aye
    Phil Woolas Oldham East & Saddleworth Lab (minister) aye
    Anthony D Wright Great Yarmouth Lab aye
    David Wright Telford Lab (PPS) aye
    Iain Wright Hartlepool Lab (PPS) aye
    Derek Wyatt Sittingbourne & Sheppey Lab aye
    George Galloway Bethnal Green & Bow Res aye


    Note that apart from Labour, only George Galloway voted with the government.
     
  14. It was a logical decision taken into account population of his constituency. As to mr.Blair he could invite mr.Galloway to return to Labour party. There is a miniroty (however a big one) that support GG. Mr.Blair as a sly politician could use it.